IS ANGLO CRITICISM OF PRESIDENT OBAMA’S POLICIES RACIST?

May 5, 2010

IS ANGLO CRITICISM OF PRESIDENT OBAMA’S POLICIES RACIST?

Posted by Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. under Uncategorized
[79] Comments

Answering the Supporters and Family Members of Evangelist Jimmy Davis

The questions and comments that I will address in this post were all raised by persons whom are Anglo and share the concern, “Is there a way to challenge an African American President policies without being accused of racism?” The persons who raised this question and other President Obama related questions are all to some degree sympathetic to or totally supportive of Evangelist Jimmy Davis. Evangelist Jimmy Davis made some controversial remarks and prayer requests concerning President Obama at the Southern Baptist of Texas Evangelism Conference in February 2010 that you can find here and here. I’m specifically responding to questions generated by my post entitled, “ATTITUDES TOWARD RACE IN SBC LIFE” and a CBS Channel 11 local news story addressing current racial concerns in the SBC, that featured a quote by Bro. Davis.

Dennis Thurman and Charity Davis Melchor, the daughter of Evangelist Davis, both raised the question in my blog post, “Is Anglo Criticism of President Obama’s Policies Racist?” I’ve chosen that question as the topic of this post. This is a valid and legitimate question that was alluded to by all of Evangelist Davis’ supporters. I’m anxious to answer the question.

Anybody who really knows me is aware of that fact that in my pulpit and other public and private settings, I make it very clear that I strongly disagree with several of President Obama’s policies. I’m in total disagreement with President Obama’s gay rights, the repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell”, same sex civil unions, and gay pride promotion policies. Does that make me a racist? I disagree with President Obama’s appointing Supreme Court and Federal Judges who support Roe vs. Wade, the federal funding of abortions in the recently passed health care legislation, and his abortion policies in general. Does that make me a racist? I’m in disagreement with his bailout policies; stimulus package spending policies, and health care tax increase and any other tax increase policy. Does that make me a racist? Notwithstanding the current oil spill in the Gulf. My oil drilling exploration philosophy can be summed up with these words: “Drill Baby Drill!” Does that make me a racist? Because of policy differences, I did not vote for President Obama. Does that make me a racist? NO!

Any American citizen who criticizes the Office of the President – no matter who holds that office – needs to make sure that the criticism is policy and principle driven, and not pigmentation or personality driven. This premise holds true for any American, of any color, particularly Christians, who for whatever reasons choose to criticize the President. IT IS NOT RACIST FOR AN ANGLO TO CRITICIZE PRESIDENT OBAMA’S POLICIES, nor for an African American to criticize President Obama, President Bush, or any other President’s policies.

Here is the problem. In his message to the Southern Baptists of Texas Evangelism Conference, Evangelist Davis argued from the premise that President Obama is not a Christian, fully aware that the President claims to be a Christian. To argue that the President is not a Christian and to ask for prayer requests for the salvation of the President is not stating a policy difference. It is pronouncing a judgment and communicating an assumption (that was not shared by all of his audience) without providing one iota of evidence to support his assumption or judgment. Brother Davis, in boldly proclaiming that President Obama was not a Christian, I repeat, was not expressing a policy difference; but rather a personal judgment difference. Bro. Davis and President Obama have a difference in judgment about the President’s Christianity. This is a major issue in our dispute over this matter. The vast majority of African American Baptists and many Anglo Baptists would not agree with Evangelist Davis’ assessment of President Obama’s Christianity. If Evangelist Davis had presented his belief and prayer request at the National Baptist Convention (Black Baptists) maintaining that President Obama is not a Christian, he would have been “booed” or ushered off the stage: Not because President Obama is African American, but because Evangelist Davis provided no evidence for his premise that President Obama is not a Christian. And no, it is not apparent to all. Admittedly, President Obama is a liberal Christian. Are we saying that liberal Christians are not Christians at all?

Brother Davis is well within his right to call into question, doubt, or disbelieve the authenticity of the Christian testimony of President Obama. However, to do so raises a series of questions in the mind of an objective believer. Questions such as; By what standard did Brother Davis discredit the Christian testimony of President Obama? Did he apply the same standards to the Christian testimonies of Presidents Bush, Clinton, Daddy Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Kennedy and the President whom my mother named me after, President Dwight D. Eisenhower? Did Brother Davis ever ask a group of Southern Baptists to pray to God that one or more of the above named Presidents be sent by God into “exile” or be “providentially” removed from office if they didn’t repent?

The burden of proof is on Brother Davis to explain why he believes President Obama is not a Christian. The burden of proof is on Brother Davis to explain why he considers President Obama the most wicked President in American history. The burden of proof is on Brother Davis to explain why he considers President Obama more wicked than the slavery/segregation promoting Presidents. The burden of proof is on Brother Davis to explain why he considers President Obama to be more wicked than President Clinton, President Nixon, or a host of other American Presidents. The burden of proof is on Brother Davis to explain why he believes it is exegetically accurate to compare a theocratic King-Manasseh/Israel, with a secular President – Obama/U.S.A., and hold them to the same standard and judgment.

These are not policy questions. These are personal and spiritual questions. Consequently, this then is why the issue of race or double standards is raised.

Lonnie Massey, an Anglo brother, makes it clear and I agree with him, that Evangelist Jimmy Davis is not a racist. However, he described the “exile” quote as “intemperate and inflammatory.” Brother Davis’ statements may not have been race based. They could have been simply personal preference and personal judgment based. Nevertheless, they were clearly inappropriate and without foundation. Bro. Massey made another relevant and insightful statement; “Anyone who speaks for a living should always consider his or her audience.” I believe Bro. Jimmy failed to give full consideration to the diversity of his audience. There were Anglo persons in the audience who disagreed with Bro. Jimmy’s statements as well. To call President Obama’s Christianity into question using a different standard than what is used for Southern Baptist Pro-Choice advocates, Baptist slaveholders, Presidents Clinton, Bush I and II, and to call for prayer requests for God to send President Obama into “exile”, or “providentially” remove him from office – are personal judgments not policy differences.

The Bible teaches us to pray for those in authority so “that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life” (I Tim. 2:2). When Paul wrote this, Christians were under great persecution from a pagan Roman Government. However, Paul did not instruct them to pray for the Roman Emperor’s or Governors “exile” or “providential” removal from office. I agree with my friend Tim Rogers, who is certainly not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination; “I agree we should not call for the providential removal of our Nations leaders as it speaks clearly that we are asking God to kill them.” Well spoken Bro. Tim. Therefore, the prayer requests that Evangelist Jimmy Davis offered for President Obama can either be labeled, intemperate, inconsiderate, inflammatory, inconsistent, ill thought, unrighteous, unbiblical, race based, or simply wrong. Pick one. I accept the testimony of his family members that Bro. Davis is not racist nor was his prayer request race based. So that leaves one or more of the other categories to choose from. Again, pick one.

The issue of race, not racism as it relates to Southern Baptists and Bro. Jimmy Davis, was raised on my blog post, because, quite frankly, many of us have never heard imprecatory prayers prayed toward a sitting President in our lifetime. Why now? Why President Obama?

If anyone can prove with a recording that Brother Davis has made identical remarks or prayers toward any other President, I will immediately publicly release a statement of apology to Evangelist Davis. Until Evangelist Davis provides a biblical rationale that can be applied to all of the other Presidents and all Southern Baptists, that invalidates President Obama’s testimony, I stand by my blog post and public remarks. These are not policy questions, they are judgment questions. Therefore, the call for evidence and questions about the motivation of these unusual prayers are based on a lack of documentation that this has been done in the past.

If President Obama’s abortion policies invalidated his salvation, we must disqualify all Southern Baptists who claim to be Christian, but are pro-choice, including the majority of the voting messengers to the 1971 SBC Annual Meeting.

President Obama and President Bush hold the exact same position on gay marriage and civil unions. Their positions are: Gay marriage? No. Gay Civil Unions? Yes. I’m totally against both. However, if you disqualify one’s salvation based on same sex civil unions, you also have to disqualify the other. Presidents Bush and Obama are both Universalist and President Bush says he believes that there are errors in the Bible. I disagree with both Presidents on Universalism and I strongly disagree with President Bush’s beliefs that there are errors in the Bible. However, I do not question whether or not either is a genuine Christian.

An Anglo or any other American can question President Obama’s policies without being accused of racism. However, one must stick to policy issues and not delve into imprecatory prayers and judging any President’s salvation without offering evidence. I share Bro. Jimmy’s heart for righteousness and revival. Other than the Obama portion, I agreed with the entirety of Bro. Jimmy’s message.

Sister Lori Mulkey, I share your belief that “supporting homosexuality and the murder of children is not producing Christian fruit.” My question to you is this: Since, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton held these same views do you also maintain that they were not Christians? Do you believe that the Southern Baptists were Christians who voted in 1971 in their Annual Session – to use your vernacular- support “the murder of children.”? Do you believe that President George Bush, who believed that there were errors in the Bible, believed in Universalism and same sex civil unions, is a Christian? In order for me to address your concerns about President Obama, I would have to know how you feel about these questions. Please provide definitive answers for me.

Sister Lori, you asked, “Could you tell me exactly what it is that you agree with the President on?” I agree with him that the Executive Cabinet of our Government should look like America. The SBC, CEO positions are all held by White Males. In that regard, President Obama’s practice of the Christian faith exceeds Southern Baptists (Acts 10:34). I agree with him that family life and commitment is of utmost importance. He far exceeds John McCain in the family department. I disagree, as you do, with many of his policies. But, I’ve read his Christian testimony. In spite of his policies, his testimony is clearer than most Southern Baptists. I agree with him, that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God and that He was buried and rose again on the third day. President Obama has expressed his faith on these matters many times. Unfortunately, many Southern Baptists don’t believe him. Consequently, the questions of a double standard and race-based criticism are inevitable. Bill Clinton and Al Gore were Southern Baptists with views identical to President Obama. I don’t recall the prayers for “exile” and “providential” removal from office when they were in office. Was Obama really more wicked than Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon and a host of other Presidents?

Bro. Jake Davis, I loved my father; he is in heaven now. I can tell you loved your dad. I celebrate the loyalty and love you all have for each other. I have not called your father a racist. I’ve never met him. I’m sure he’s not a racist. From what I’ve heard, he sounds like a great man. He must be a great father.

Please point to the written verbal statement where I called your dad a racist.

Do you believe that it is proper that prayers are prayed asking God to send into exile and providentially remove any President who believes in abortion or same sex civil unions? I don’t question whether or not your daddy is a racist. I question the appropriateness of the two types of prayers he mentioned to pray for President Obama. I question his evidence for his belief that President Obama is not a Christian and the most “wicked President in the history of America”. What is Evangelist Davis’ answer to these questions:

(1) Were the Baptists slave owners Christians? (2) Were the SBC Messengers who voted in favor of abortion in 1971 Christians? I’m questioning whether or not your father prayed these identical prayers for other Presidents with President Obama’s views on abortion and homosexuality. If so, where’s the evidence? (3) Where is the evidence that President Obama is the most wicked President in history?

Evangelist Davis may simply be guilty of applying a different standard to President Obama or he may have made subconsciously race-based remarks. It is possible that neither is true. I will be glad to apologize if you offer me evidence to the contrary. Please provide a copy of the tape of your Dad praying “exile” and “providential” removal prayers for the other Presidents.

I applaud your support for your dad and I don’t believe your daddy is a racist. Remember, being racial is not the same as being racist in my original blog post, “Attitudes On Race In SBC Life.”

Bro. Casey Harrington, I trust I’ve answered most of your questions by answering the questions of others. I’m unaware of the report that President Obama actually “knelt and bowed down in a Muslim Mosque”. Before I could address this issue, you’ll have to point me to the source of your information on President Obama allegedly kneeling down at a Muslim Mosque.

Bro. Harrington, I would also ask you to answer the questions that I asked Bro. Jake Davis.

Bro. Harrington, your “exile” question deserves far more attention than I have space or time to answer. Suffice it to say at this point, there is no biblical precedence for “exile” prayers (I Timothy 2:1-8) and where were these prayers for other Presidents with similar views to President Obama?

Sis. Margaret Bouman, I believe that I’ve addressed your questions in my response to others. If not, ask a clear, specific question and I will give you a clear specific answer.

Sis. Darla,

Thanks for visiting. I hope I’ve addressed your concerns in my comments to others. If not, please ask a specific question and I will give you a specific answer.

Sis. Lori,

Thanks for visiting. I’m concerned about your “exile” comment but I respect your right to your belief.

Finally, please forgive the length of this post. I enjoy company. I love each of you with the love of the Lord.

Dwight

79 Responses to “IS ANGLO CRITICISM OF PRESIDENT OBAMA’S POLICIES RACIST?”

Chuck Warnock Says:

May 5, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Well said, and you make very valid points that those who can approach this issue with some level of objectivity will benefit from reflecting on. I made similar observations, though not as well-developed as yours, in my second comment on your “Attitudes Toward Race in SBC Life” post. I also like your idea of gathering in Augusta, but I doubt if we can get a busload, much less a convention-full of attendees. Again, these are power issues in the SBC, and those in power relinquish it slowly and reluctantly, if ever. You’re going to take some heat for this, but keep on saying it. -Chuck

Reply
1. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
  
  May 6, 2010 at 4:43 pm
  Chuck,
  I appreciate your objectivity. I look forward to future dialogue. Thanks again for visiting.
  
  Dwight
  
  Reply
  1. George Nelson Says:
    
    May 19, 2010 at 4:25 pm
    We are at a prophetic moment in time. and Dwight is such a one for time like these. When we deny those statements made at the conference were offensive.( by Bro. Davis) I too attended and wheteher anyone stand up or not. There need to be dialogue concerning how we feel about each other. I applaud Bro. Mckissic for his stance. “It take courage to cut against the grain and be ye not conformed. ou are in my prayers!
  2. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
    
    May 20, 2010 at 10:03 am
    Rev. George Nelson, thanks for visiting. I’m convinced that Baptists need to dialogue and pray about these matters. The only hope for reconciliation and healing to take place is through both sides hearing the other and taking it to the Lord in prayer. May your tribe increase.
Jake Davis Says:

May 6, 2010 at 11:38 am
I would like to respond to the question you posed as to where the verbal written statement of you calling my dad a racist is. There is not a “written” statement of you calling my dad a racist; however there is an implied verbal/non-verbal statement of that. You cannot possibly believe that including the footage of my dad’s sermon in your rant about not having more diverse leadership in the SBC was not implying that he was racist, you sir would be splitting frog hairs if you do.
Believe me, I do love my dad and this is the one and only time I have ever raised my voice in defense of him and his ministry, partly because of my dad’s insistence not to and the fact that in my younger years I would not have used this sort of medium to get my point across but rather a more intimate face to face meeting, which probably would have gotten me into some sort of legal trouble, but that is not the point. The point is that I am sick and tired of all of the hypocrisy and jockeying for position that I, as a preachers kid have witnessed in the last 33 years. I personally dont care one bit about denominational, associational or group centered religion. I do not consider myself a religious person but rather a Christian. For over 10 years I turned my back on the church for the very same reasons that I wrote my first response to your blog. Why is it any concern of yours or anyone else’s if what was preached that day in February is correct. If Daddy made a mistake dont you think the Good Lord above will have something to say about it? Who appointed you the watchdog of the Baptist Faith? I do not dispute your right to voice your opinion, so brother don’t get mad at me when I express mine.
At one point you ask what my beliefs are…Brother here we go: I believe that homosexuality, abortion, same-sex marriages or unions are sins that bear the cost of eternity in hell. I also believe that those who support those ideals are going against the infallible Word of God and they too will have to answer for that with damnation into the pits of hell. I believe that with all of my heart. I believe that there are sunny parts of the Bible as well as dark and point blank parts. I believe that any pastor who cannot preach over both should not be preaching. I have always referred to my dad as a “Hell-Fire and Brimstone” type of preacher, and most people dont want to listen to that. In the world we live in today everyone wants to feel good and not have their actions questioned, believe me, I am a high school teacher and coach.
I apologize for the length of my rambling, there are things in here that I have never even spoke of before now. Thank you for reaffirming to me the hypocrisy that rings throughout most of our churches today. Who is Jimmy Davis to question the Christianity of Barack Obama? Who are you to question the message that God gave to Jimmy Davis? Who are you to question me? Who am I to question you? Who is the SBC to not elect the best man for the job, despite race? Why am I wasting my time?

Reply
1. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
  
  May 6, 2010 at 4:45 pm
  Brother Jake Davis,
  
  It is obvious to me that my writings and speech have offended you and perhaps your family. That was not my intent, and for that I’m truly sorry. I pray for healing and understanding on these matters so that brothers can dwell together in unity. May the Lord smile upon you and your family is my prayer.
  
  Dwight
  
  Reply
  1. Jake Davis Says:
    
    May 8, 2010 at 8:25 am
    Offended that is an understatement…I wish I could say that I am as godly of a man as my dad, I am striving toward that goal. Because of my dad, I choose to confront this atrocity and slander in this manner, 5-10 years ago it would have been a whole different story. I tend to relate to the apostle Peter: I tend to lean towards the mindset that if words don’t work then something else will just as Peter did in the Garden with the Roman soldier. However, through age and I know through daily prayers from my dad and my prayerful mom those actions have turned into thoughts and now into something a little more constructive. As I mentioned earlier I am a teacher and coach, there are times when I have to tell a player or student something that they do not want to hear. I then have to explain why it is best for them and the team in the long run, I believe that is exactly what my dad’s message was about.
    I will end with this; I have no doubts that you believe what you have posted and what you put on the Channel 11 news is right. But know this sir, I will fight tooth and nail until my dying breath for the well-being of my family and brother I am good at what I do!!! This is by no means a threat of a physical sort but rather a warning that I will use this blog, Channel 11 news or any other means necessary in order to continue that fight. I throw down the gauntlet of truth sir!!!
  2. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
    
    May 11, 2010 at 3:57 pm
    Brother Jake Davis,
    I share the prayer and passion of your father for revival and righteousness to visit the churches and people of America. On this point we share unity in the faith. I celebrate your father’s boldness to declare the message of revival and righteousness. Brother Jimmy Davis’ message will not return void. God will honor and bless his message. In the grand scheme of things, our disagreement over the “Obama” message is but a bleep for a moment. This will soon pass away. Your daddy’s message of righteousness and revival is for a lifetime and it will last throughout eternity. He will receive a crown of righteousness for his message (II Timothy 4:7,8) and Bro. Davis and I will one day rejoice in heaven together.
    Thanks for visiting again. As I said to Bro. Kenneth, I am willing to meet with you and Bro. Kenneth personally if you want to continue this dialogue. At this point I will allow you to have the last word unless you want to meet in person. I appreciate your willingness to dialogue and share your true feelings.
Kenneth Reiter Says:

May 6, 2010 at 1:01 pm
Dr. McKissic,

First of all, I wanted to comment on your “Drill Baby Drill!” That’s great!!! As a former oil field worker, I hope that we can get some of the right people to adopt this policy.

Now for your article. I have heard you mention and use for your argument the 1971 voting messengers to the annual SBC meeting, and the past Southern Baptists who owned slaves. And you have used these two instances to justify President Obama’s faith. However, there is one major difference in the 1971 voting messengers and the Southern Baptists slave holders. The Southern Baptist Convention has come out since those incidents with a confession that they were wrong (about slavery), apologized (about slavery), and changed their policy (about pro-choice). Now, while I do not know about the spiritual state of the people that you have brought up, I do know that apologies have been made, and rectified. President Obama needs to do the same. It is called repentance. And if President Obama is truly a Christian, then the Holy Spirit will convict him. If he is not saved, then he will either get saved or he will burn in hell. That is his choice.

Now, you give several labels for Davis’ message. They include “intemperate, inconsiderate, inflammatory, inconsistent, ill thought, unrighteous, unbiblical, race based, or simply wrong.” You do claim to believe in God. So, did you ever stop and think that Davis was actually inspired by God? Who appointed you to be judge? It is interesting that you call Davis out for making a judgment call against Obama, and in the process of calling him out, you turn right around and do the same thing to Davis yourself! Where I come from, we label that “hypocrisy.” Give me any evidence at all to demonstrate that Davis’ comments did not come from God. Give me any evidence at all to prove that Davis’ comments are “simply wrong.”

Also, you repeatedly have attacked Bro. Jimmy for calling President Obama’s faith into question. However you have repeatedly defended President Obama’s faith in spite of the fact that President Obama’s actions and beliefs demonstrate that his faith may not be genuine. Jesus made it clear that there are people who will claim Jesus as Lord, but will not truly be saved (Matt 7:21-23). Jesus also made it clear that “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments” (Jn 14:15), “You are my friends if you do what I command you” (Jn 15:14), “I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit…” (Jn 15:5), and also warned that “the bad tree bears bad fruit” (Matt 7:17). James gives the grave warning that “faith without works is dead” (Js 2:26). You keep asking Davis for evidence to provide substance for his message, but I do not understand why. He does not need to show any to anybody. The only thing that a person has to do is go and turn on a television, or get on the internet. Have you ever stopped to think that the reason Bro. Jimmy remains silent on your call for evidence is because it is a request based upon ignorance. If I was in Davis’ shoes, I would NOT answer you either.

Finally, Dr. McKissic, I believe that this whole thing is not a spiritual matter, but a matter of race. I laughed at your response to Jake Davis when you said, “Please point to the written verbal statement where I called your dad a racist.” Yes, it is true you have not come right out and said, “Evangelist Davis is a racist.” However, your entire article is about a statement that Jimmy Davis made which you believe is racist. A liar is a someone who lies. An adulterer is someone who commits adultery. A murderer is someone who murders. A racist, is someone who holds to the superiority of a particular race (whether in word or in deed). So you may not come right out and make this statement, but your article definitely implies it. What do you think people (who do not know Jimmy Davis) leave your article thinking about him? I would make the same argument about the news story. One small clip out of Davis’ entire message got shown. It is the exact same thing that Richard Dawkins did to Bill Dembski. Davis was not even discussing race, yet you have twisted it so that it comes across like a racial matter. You twisted Davis’ words to help your agenda. Dr. McKissic, I believe that you are extremely intelligent. I do not believe that you are stupid in anyway. Do not make the mistake of thinking we are.

This whole issue for you, it seems, is that a white preacher is showing (according to the Bible, I might add) that a black President is doing things that are wicked. It has nothing to do with the fact that President Obama has beliefs that are wicked in God’s eyes, thus making him wicked. It has nothing to do with President Obama’s actions or beliefs. Instead it is about race, and a judgment call that you have made against a particular man. Let me say, that I do agree that there is a racial problem in the SBC. However, I believe it has more to do with breaking down barriers. And a lot of these barriers remain in place because of people (I am not going to say any names) who make racial issues out of things that are not racial issues. I thought Bill Clinton was horrible, and stated it from the pulpit. Bush made me even angrier because he misled us. And now we have Obama. Dr. McKissic, if the man we have in the office of the president is wicked, I am not going to deny it. And as a pastor, I WILL warn my people about being in agreement with any wicked leader – outside of what we are supposed to do. I do not care if he is black, white, brown, yellow, or orange.

I do not see race. I invite you to do the same.

Reply
1. Darla Says:
  
  May 6, 2010 at 4:34 pm
  well said…thank you Mr. Reiter. I do not know you but am in total agreement. God Bless you & your ministry.
  
  Reply
  1. Kenneth Reiter Says:
    
    May 6, 2010 at 11:14 pm
    Thanks, Ms. Darla, for your sweet comment. I do not know you either, but one day this will all be over, and I will shake your hand in Heaven.
    
    God bless.
2. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
  
  May 6, 2010 at 4:47 pm
  Kenneth,
  
  Thanks for visiting. The key question is, were the SBC messengers Christian in 1971 when they held to a pro-choice position? If the answer is yes; could it be that President Obama could be a Christian as well, while holding a pro-choice position with the possibility of one day changing his position to Pro-Life, as did the SBC messengers.
  
  I do not believe that the “exile” and “providential” removal prayer requests were inspired by God. I believe Jim Richards and Don Cass, SBTC officials would agree with me on this. You are right, I made a judgment call on Bro. Davis’ message as he did on President Obama’s salvation. If I’m wrong I ask the Lord and Bro. Davis to forgive me.
  
  I did not twist Bro. Davis’ words. They speak for themselves. I made it clear that I have major differences with President Obama. I’ll leave it to you and Bro. Davis to label him “wicked”. I find no value, good, or purpose accomplished by doing so. Apparently you do. I’m glad you don’t see race. But I assure you, that Bro. Davis’ message would not have been appreciated by a Black Baptist gathering, again not because of President Obama’s race, but because it was personal judgment being preached. Thanks again for visiting.
  
  Dwight
  
  Reply
Kenneth Reiter Says:

May 6, 2010 at 2:14 pm
I see something I need to clarify. I said, “there is one major difference in the 1971 voting messengers and the Southern Baptists slave holders.” I meant that “there is one major difference [between] the 1971 voting messengers and the Southern Baptists slave holders,” and President Obama.

Reply
Kenneth Reiter Says:

May 6, 2010 at 11:06 pm
Thank You, Dr. McKissic, for answering my argument honestly.

On my point about the 1976 messengers, you do make a good counterpoint. Yet, I do not think its stands, because, as I said in my original post, the SBC went back and changed the 1976 declaration because they admitted that the 1976 stance was not right. Genuine believers will eventually get to the point that they repent of sin. If a person truly is saved, then at some point the Holy Spirit will convict of sin, and that person will respond with repentance. This does not mean that believers do not sin. However, the Holy Spirit eventually convicts us in our lives of various sins, and we repent of them. John writes that “If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us” (1 Jn 1:10). Yet, in his same letter, John goes on to say “No one who is born of God practices sin…” (1 Jn 3:9a). So, I am not saying that sincere believers are sinless. However, if a person is living a liftestyle of sin, and therefore practicing sin, then it is a different matter. As it says in 1 John 1:9, we confess our sins and God forgives. The SBC as a whole realized that they made a mistake in 1976, and went back and fixed it. That is a Godly quality.

However, this is not the quality that President Obama has shown. Let me quote you. You said, “I’m in total disagreement with President Obama’s gay rights, the repeal of ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’, same sex civil unions, and gay pride promotion policies.” I know that you said you disagreed with President Obama, but you still admit that he holds to views that support homosexuality. Therefore, President Obama holds to homosexuality in spite of passages like Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, Romans 1:18-32, I Corinthians 6:9-10, and 1 Timothy 1:8-11. From these passages alone, the Bible teaches that homosexuality is an abomination, detestable, worthy of death, a sign of the judgment and wrath of God, unnatural, indecent, a sign of depravity, unrighteous, lawlessness, rebellion, and ungodly. You see the reason that the issue of homosexuality is muddied is because of the teaching of men. The Bible does not muddy the issue of homosexuality; it is as clear it can be, yet President Obama is willing to support it. We could go into abortion, but I believe I have made my point without any need to go any further.

People who are saved love God with all that they are. And because they love God, they love His Word, as the Psalmist states, “O how I love Your law!” (Ps 119:97) And because we love God and love His word, we grow to love the things that God loves and hate the things that God hates.

Yes, as you have said, it is possible that President Obama could change his policy. But, Dr. McKissic, lets be honest with each other for a second. YOU AND I both know that President Obama is not going to change. You may not admit it, but you know this just as much as I do.

Now, it is possible that President Obama could get saved, repent, and then “bear fruits in keeping with repentance” (Lk 3:8), and change his views. And this is my prayer – kind of like what Jimmy Davis said to do.

As you stated in your response to me, Jimmy Davis and I have labeled President Obama as wicked (Actually, I didn’t call him wicked; but I do believe he is, and I did imply it, so your statement is partially true). So, I just gave you one reason why. My only question to you is this: How can you know these scriptures that I just listed, know what President Obama believes, and not call him wicked?

Your point about Jimmy Davis’ message not being appreciated by a Black Baptist gathering is irrelevant mainly because Jimmy Davis DID NOT preach at a Black Baptist gathering. He preached at the Southern Baptist of Texas Evangelism Conference, if you will recall. I do not know why you even bring this up.

And yes, you did twist Bro. Jimmy’s words. You made his statement out to be a racist one when it did not have anything to do with racism. People now think that Jimmy Davis is racist because of you.

I know Jimmy Davis personally. He is one of the most Godly men that I have ever met. He came and preached a revival at our church last year. In fact, he and I were sitting outside the church in a RV when he got the invite to preach at this year’s conference. When I heard what he preached, I thought of all the different types of criticism that people would possibly give him. However, I never once would have thought that someone would hear it and say that his comments were racist. When I heard about your blog, I just could not believe it. I had to come and see it for myself.

You can write all you want and make all the claims that you “did not twist Bro. Davis’ words.” However, that is a lie. Davis did not say a single thing about race. He was not even preaching on race. You took what he said and manipulated it to make it sound like a racist remark. You owe Bro. Jimmy and his family an apology. You should call him and personally apologize, and put it up on this blog site that you apologize.

I realize that making an apology and admitting that you are wrong is hard. You would have to swallow some pride and it will take courage. However, it’s the right thing to do. You can do the right thing, or go on defending this lie.

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Anonymous Says:

May 7, 2010 at 7:00 am
Kenneth Reiter said, “Now, it is possible that President Obama could get saved …”. I choose not to hold this office and leave it to God.

Anonymous

Reply
1. Kenneth Reiter Says:
  
  May 7, 2010 at 7:19 am
  Excuse me Anonymous, my comment (7) was addressed to you.
  
  Reply
Kenneth Reiter Says:

May 7, 2010 at 7:18 am
The Bible says, “realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be…” “…holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these” (2 Tim 3:1-2a, 5). “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine…” (2 Tim 4:3)

I choose to believe and completely trust the Word of God, in spite of those who “know the ordiance of God…” yet practice ungodliness, and “…give hearty approval to those” who “do the same.” (Rom 1:32)

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Darla Says:

May 7, 2010 at 9:43 am
Mr. McKissick,
Does leading a quiet & peaceful life mean getting on the news & pointing fingers at men who you claim are pointing fingers at the President….what’s the difference in you & other men?

Despite all policy issues our govt has allowed (our children growing up in America to believe such sinful things are ok, thank God for Christian parents!) anyway ignoring the issues of policies, let us examine the spiritual side of our President. Could you , as a believer in Jesus Christ, invite Muslims from all over the nation to come to worship their God, and cancel a national Day of a prayer because it is not in accordance with the Constitution? I do not see how ANY Christian could do such. If Billy Graham or Creflo Dollar did such a thing, what would you think, and what would be your next message out of the pulpit?

It seems you believe Obama is innocent until proven guilty because you say, “Obama clearly professes his faith in Christianity” therefore Jimmy Davis should just believe him. I see your point as to the fact it is not Jimmy’s judgement to make. But what hurt can come from praying for anyone’s salvation? I bet you have prayed yourself for someone “Lord if they are not saved, please save them”…You know some will say “Lord, Lord….and He will say, “away from me you evil-doer, I never knew you”

But then you proclaim Jimmy Davis GUILTY until he proves his innocence, as far as the sermon about past presidents. You will take Obama’s word, but not your fellow Bro. in Christ’s word?

If you could only see these things through God’s eyes and not your own black & white eyes…

This all originated with YOUR agenda to get more blacks in the SBC, (pardon my using black & white rather then ANGLO & African…that’s what it is…I am not offended for being called white, although I look more tan, and have Irish & Indian and who knows what else in me. So I pray saying black does not offend you.) You used Bro. Jimmy as an example of racism in the SBC in segment on channel 11 news and now want to say he’s not racial or racist but will not offer a public or private apology to your brother for what you did? It’s fine you do not agree with him praying for the President’s salvation or something to bring him to salvation…but that’s a whole different story. Now to get out of the damage you’ve done to Bro,. Jimmy Davis and his family, you are trying to find other things wrong with his sermon and make this racial issue in the SBC into something different.

Is it that hard to say “I’m sorry I hurt you, I was wrong” the Bible says somewhere in Proverbs I think…”pride goeth before destruction”…

And as far as trying to get the SBC to get a black man in office…PLEASE LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION …if you went up for a job where lots of black people worked and YOU were more qualified than a white man who also applied for the job…would it be considered racial discrimination if they picked the white man because not enough whites worked there to balance it out even though you were the better choice for the job? Is it fair if my white daughter loses an opportunity for a job just because a company HAS to get a black employee even if she’s a better candidate for the job? Would you really want to be hired for a job solely based on your skin color? that’s seems racial to me! whether it be for you or against you…it’s racial all the same. IN ALL RESPECT, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO KNOW YOUR OPINION ON THIS MATTER! When will the blacks see they have ALL the same rights & freedoms and opportunities as everyone else, including to hold the office of the Pres. of the USA. Can a black Christian try to be more Christ-like and forgive & forget…MY generation of whites has suffered enough, as well, of being accused of things that we’ve never done nor would ever do…when will you teach your congregation to let things go.

Unforgiveness hurts the one who carries it and all future relationships. I pray for a forgiving heart for the Davis family whether you ask for it or not. I pray for a forgiving heart for you if you have been offended in anyway through this whole ordeal. And I pray you both continue to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ only in accordance with His Word and may none of us ever boast in ANYTHING except Jesus!

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Charity Davis Melchor Says:

May 7, 2010 at 10:08 am
I wrote a response to Mr. Warnock on the other blog, but for some reason it wouldn’t post…Divine Intervention perhaps! Therefore, I will only address two issues now because I feel like Bro. Kenneth and my brother Jake hit the nail on the head and no other response is needed from me at this point.

First of all, I have personally witnessed my entire life messages preached by my dad where this sort of thing, the need for the salvation of the president (whoever that may have been at the time) and changes in policies that did not agree with scripture were addressed. As far as having recordings of those messages, Mr. McKissic, we have always been in small country churches where most sermons were not recorded. Now after some research, I might be able to come up with a recording, but I’m not going to go to that trouble because I’m sure if we produced the “evidence” you are requesting and you heard it with your own ears, you would still find some way to turn it into something that it’s not! Therefore, as Kenneth said, as my dad has chosen not to respond to your allegations, I will not go out of my way to provide for your request! You can either take my brother’s and my word for it, or just go on falsely promoting your cause!

Secondly, I would like to address your stance that Obama has a firm testimony that he is a Christian. Mr. Warnock said something about Obama being a Christian, but maybe just not my “type” of Christian? What is that supposed to mean? Where in the Bible does it talk about types of Christians? My Bible, God’s word, teaches that you either are or you aren’t…there is no middle ground! There are no types of Christians! Yes, there are degrees to a Christian’s walk with the Lord, but a Christian is a Christian, and a unbeliever is an unbeliever. Again, as has been pointed out time and again, just because someone claims to e a Christian, just because they said a prayer doesn’t mean they were ever really truly saved.

On that same issue, I saw a video clip on YouTube yesterday that I would like to link here, and ask that you view. It is a clip of many different instances of Obama admitting that he is a Muslim. Mr. McKissic, do you truly believe that a person who supports Muslim faith is truly a Christian? Here is the link to the clip:

I hope this opens your eyes to the wickedness of our current President, not because of his skin color, but because of his worldliness!

Reply
1. George Nelson Says:
  
  May 19, 2010 at 4:33 pm
  This clip is doctored!
  
  Reply
  1. Darla Says:
    
    June 17, 2010 at 7:01 am
    are you for real? Could you do the same with, let’s say, Mr. McKissick, or George Bush, or Bill clinton, or your pastor? or you? I believe this was his own words. And no man or woman would say these things unless they were of the muslim faith. just as one who is a Christian can be caught saying much about Jesus and the Holy Bible and fellow Christians, can you put together a video of Obama doing that? I recall a speech where he said Jesus’ sermon on the mount was so radical and no country can live by that. I saw it & heard it on live TV. Believe what you want, but I will still pray for his salvation through faith in Jesus, the only Way, the real Truth…..because we need a Christian president, and Mr. Obama is, in my opinion, lost..but ultimately, he will stand before God, who is the only judge that matters.
Charity Davis Melchor Says:

May 7, 2010 at 10:46 am
I would like to say thank you to all who have responded in this blog as well as the other blog! Thank you for standing up for the truth, and to the ones of you who took my challenge to stand up for the Godly, loving man you have come to know and love in my dad! I truly know no other more Godly man on this earth!

Bro. Kenneth, your responses have truly brought tears to my eyes and a smile to my face! It is obvious that you yourself are a Godly man, grounded in the Word! I cannot express my gratitude to you for the time you have taken to post responses! God bless you and your family for you sensitivity to and you love for the Truth!

Thank you all for making it obvious to Mr. McKissic and Mr. Warnock that it is not only Bro. Jimmy’s family who is standing up for and supporting him, and it is not only us who have been hurt by these accusations!

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1. Kenneth Reiter Says:
  
  May 7, 2010 at 1:50 pm
  Mrs. Charity, it has been a long time. You probably do not remember me from Muenster – It’s been more than 12 years.
  
  Your family is so Godly, and you have a sweet spirit. I have never met Jake, but based upon what he posted earlier, and what Bro. Jimmy has told me about him, I believe him to be no different.
  
  I just want to say thanks for your kind comments. It is truly an honor to be here.
  
  Being called a Godly man is the highest compliment that I can think of, and I appreciate your spirit. However, I make so many mistakes and fall so short. I don’t really know what I am trying to say. boy i hate emails. i just don’t want to make myself out to be something that i’m not
  
  I’m trying…
  
  Anyway, I had better get off the personal talk. It is just so neat knowing someone when you were growing up, and then after a long period of losing touch, you come into contact with them again.
  
  Its good to cross paths with you again.
  
  God bless
  
  Reply
2. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
  
  May 11, 2010 at 4:10 pm
  Ms. Charity,
  I feel you, your brother’s and perhaps Bro. Jimmy’s pain. However, I want you all to picture for a moment this scene: How do you think the First Lady of the U.S.A., Michelle Obama and her daughters Sasha and Malia would feel if they heard that a SBC preacher was encouraging prayer requests for their husband and father to be “exiled” or “providentially” removed from office? Their pain would be far greater than yours. I hope that I don’t find it necessary to address this matter again after today, because I don’t want to inflict any additional pain on your family. And I would hope that SBC preachers who find it necessary to pray for “exile” and “providential” removal for the President would give some consideration to the pain that those comments potentially inflicts upon President Obama’s family. Whenever I’ve taken a strong public controversial stand like Brother Davis took, I’ve anticipated a backlash and I usually prepare myself for whatever reaction, pain or consequences that might come my way.
  
  As it relates to President Obama being a Christian, I’m willing to leave that judgment in the hands of God. However, I must thank you for the video clip and admit that it is an eye opener. The clip surely demonstrates that President Obama has respect for Islamic People and the Islamic Religion (the religion of his father). It shows President Obama visiting a Muslim Mosque and bowing to a Muslim King. It does show President Obama saying “my muslim faith.” I do recall that clip from the campaign and he corrected himself in the follow-up sentence that was not played on the video that you posted on my blog. BTW, thanks for posting this. Everyone needs to see this so that they can draw their own conclusions. Although this clip is quite revealing, I saw nothing that says or demonstrates to me that President Obama is not a Christian.
  Casey Harrington stated in comment #33 under my post “Attitude Toward Race In The SBC” speaking of President Obama, “How can a Christian, or someone claims to be one….even kneel in a Mosque ? I never witnessed President Obama kneeling in a Mosque on this video. I did see President Obama bowing to greet a Muslim King. However, that does not constitute Muslim worship. It is simply a greeting. I have greeted others in that manner and others have greeted me in that manner and it was simply nothing more than a greeting. As a head of state, President Obama is forced to show a certain level of respect to Islamic leaders and culture. I’m much more disturbed by a comment that President Bush made that essentially make Allah, the of God of Islam and Jehovah, the God of Judaeo – Christianity – essentially the same God.
  Again, although this clip is revealing and eye-opening, it comes nowhere close to documenting or demonstrating that President Obama is not a Christian. The so called “Muslim garb” President Obama was wearing is traditional African clothing. I have a few of those garments in my closet.
  
  I do not see President Obama supporting the Muslim faith. I see him respecting the Muslim Faith as head of state, similar to what President Bush has done. President Obama toured a Muslim Mosque. He did not worship in a mosque. I would tour a mosque. I certainly would not worship in one.
  
  Sis. Charity, if you choose to respond I will give you the last word.
  
  Reply
Lori Says:

May 7, 2010 at 12:35 pm
It’s me again. I debated for two days whether or not to even answer. It seems that I see things the way I do and you see them differently. I wonder if it profits either of us to discuss these issues. Dr. McKissic, I believe from reading what you wrote that you are a very intelligent Christian man who believes the things you write are true. I don’t believe it is right for us to attack you and call you racist any more than I believe it is right for you to “imply” that Bro. Jimmy is. You may not have came right out and said the words, but you used him as your poster child for your cause.

Bro. Jimmy called me the day he was asked to preach at the conference. This was six months before the event, yet that day
he knew what God had told him to preach. He has never wavered, backed down, or questioned a call that God put on his life.

As has been stated repeatedly the racist thing should have never been the issue, but that is what it has become. Since the news story the black children who attend our church faithfully have not been at church. I hope and I pray that the forward progress God has made here has not been hindered.

You said you were concerned about my “exile” statement and I think that is the same reason you are having such trouble understanding Bro. Jimmy’s message. I believe that God is a loving and merciful God. Scripture bears out that He will use what ever means necessary to bring a person to a saving knowledge of Him. I believe that is what all the judgements in Revelation are, a loving God using whatever means necessary to get people to turn to him before it is eternally too late. I said in my previous post that if God had to send one of my family members into exile in order for them to be saved that I believed that would be the most loving thing He could do. This life is nothing compared to eternity in hell.

In none of my correspondence to you did I mention my race. I did not because I do not believe it is important what race I am. You have asked me direct questions about why I did not question the Christianity of other political leaders. I DID. I did a whole lot of complaining about Bill Clinton. In one of Bro. Jimmy’s sermons he made this comment, “One day George Bush and Bill Clinton will both have to stand before God in judgement” God convicted me powerfully through that one statement, because in all my complaining about Mr. Cllinton I had never said one prayer for his salvation. I believed that when they stood before God in judgement that Bush would stand there covered by the blood of Jesus and Clinton would be lost. If I believed that to be true then I should have been praying for his salvation. How do I know that Bush would be covered by the blood of Jesus? My Spirit bears witness with his Spirit. The Bible teaches it and it has happened in my life so many times – one Christian knows another one.

You have asked questions about the slave owners and others who did bad things yet professed to be Christians. You said no Anglo would answer you. My answer to you is this – when I listen to Obama speak I sense evil. I’m sorry if that’s a tough statement, but it’s the truth. There are forces at work within his life. There is something in my Spirit that tells me things are not what they appear. A Christian will not always bear good fruit. We are human, we do things that are wrong. But a Christian should have some fruit. Something, somewhere should evidence that he has the Holy Spirit living inside of him. Yes, we have had many presidents who lived immoral lives, but I have never had the same feeling that I do about Obama. It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with spirituality. Obama is half white, so if I am anglo then he is from my race as well.

I have never owned slaves nor would I have if I had lived during those times. You can bet your bottom dollar if Bro. Jimmy had lived during those times he would have been one of the prophets God sent to confront the slave owners. He would have done it and paid the price for it like I have seen him do, so many times defending what is right.

Reply
1. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
  
  May 11, 2010 at 4:12 pm
  Ms. Lori,
  I appreciate you acknowledging that in the midst of all of this, I’ve been called a racist as well. Only God knows my heart on this issue of racism and only God knows Bro. Jimmy’s heart. I do not believe Bro. Jimmy is a racist. I do believe that his remarks were inappropriate and ill advised.
  
  It may not have mattered to Bro. Jimmy, but I could have told him that his message would not have been favoritely viewed outside of a Southern, Republican and Anglo context. He may have preached it regardless, but at least he may have anticipated a backlash.
  
  Maybe the “black children” will return to your church. FYI, I can assure you that ninety five percent of African American parents would not want their children in an environment where the leadership felt like or may possibly communicate that President Obama is not a Christian or he is “wicked, he is a “Muslim” he should be “exiled” or “providentially” removed from office. From my perspective, that is a very unhealthy environment for “black children.” If they choose not to come back to your church, I’m sure God will lead them to another Bible believing church where their self esteem and sensibilities may not be at risk.
  
  Ms. Lori, your feelings about the President’s “exile” are based on your belief that he is not a Christian. Even if your belief is true (and I don’t believe it is) would you really want Michelle’s husband and Sasha and Malia’s daddy to be “exiled” or providentialy” removed?
  
  I appreciate your honesty addressing the questions concerning the salvation of other presidents and the Baptists slaveowners question.
  One of your opening statements arrested my attention: “I wonder if it profits either of us to discuss these issues.” I’m beginning to believe that you may be right. Therefore, I will give you the last word on this matter if you choose to respond. Thanks for visiting again.
  
  Reply
  1. George Nelson Says:
    
    May 19, 2010 at 4:30 pm
    At she said you were smart.
Kenneth Reiter Says:

May 7, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Dr. McKissic, I hope that you read Ms. Lori’s comment closely. Escpecially that part when she says “Since the news story the black children who attend our church faithfully have not been at church.”

See what happens when you do things wrong. It eventually backfires.

Its time to apologize.

It is your choice of course, but you just need to know something. I am not trying to offend you, but rather warn you, that the people which Ms. Lori mentioned above are on YOUR account.

Come on, do the right thing.

Reply
Kenneth Reiter Says:

May 8, 2010 at 10:21 am
I have set this comment up like a typical debate, Dr. McKissic. I begin with an address of your point, and then end with a defense.

You begin, “Here is the problem. In his message to the Southern Baptists of Texas Evangelism Conference, Evangelist Davis argued from the premise that President Obama is not a Christian, fully aware that the President claims to be a Christian.”

I believe that it has already been stated that just because a person claims to be a Christian does not mean that his is truly a Christian. We look at the fruit that is produced. Can you offer a counterpoint to this? Until you do, your beginning point does not stand.

Then you go on “To argue that the President is not a Christian and to ask for prayer requests for the salvation of the President is not stating a policy difference. It is pronouncing a judgment and communicating an assumption (that was not shared by all of his audience) without providing one iota of evidence to support his assumption or judgment. Brother Davis, in boldly proclaiming that President Obama was not a Christian, I repeat, was not expressing a policy difference; but rather a personal judgment difference.”

First of all, other than the fact that YOU said that it has to be policy driven, why does a action have to be policy driven? Dr. McKissic, why even pray for the president at all? Paul must have been wrong, when he stated that we should pray for our leaders in authority (2 Tim 2:1-2). This must be one of YOUR errors. Praying for the president is in the same category, regardless what the petition is for. Have you ever prayed for a president? Have you ever prayed for a president publically? What did you pray for the president, and how is what your petition for him “policy driven” but Jimmy Davis’ petition isn’t?

Who cares that Davis’ comment were not shared by all of his audience. Have you, Dr. McKissic, ever read in the Scriptures where it says “gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it,” yet the gate that leads to life “is small and the way is narrow” and “there are few who find it”? The teaching of Scripture is that the right way will not be popular. Your point that his assumption being shared by all of his audience does not hold up.

And Jimmy Davis can provide you with evidence of Obama’s faith not being sincere, and I have provided an iota. I noticed that you haven’t provided one iota of evidence to demonstrate that Obama is saved, other than the fact that he professes he is, which according to the Bible, we are to examine his fruits – not his words.

You then say “The vast majority of African American Baptists and many Anglo Baptists would not agree with Evangelist Davis’ assessment of President Obama’s Christianity.” See, now you are doing the exact same thing that you accuse Davis of doing. You are making a statement of fact without giving one iota of evidence to back it. I want to see evidence for this. I have three good pastor friends who are African, and they all agree with Jimmy Davis.
Then you say “If Evangelist Davis had presented his belief and prayer request at the National Baptist Convention (Black Baptists) maintaining that President Obama is not a Christian, he would have been “booed” or ushered off the stage: Not because President Obama is African American, but because Evangelist Davis provided no evidence for his premise that President Obama is not a Christian. And no, it is not apparent to all.”

I have already addressed every issue in here. We do not know that this would have happened, you have not provided any evidence to make this claim. There is plenty of evidence that Obama is not a Christian. And, once again, who care if something is apparent to all. Being apparent to all does not make something right or wrong.

So that is some of the errors in the first paragraph of yours that I address.

Let’s look at your next paragraph. You ask “By what standard did Brother Davis discredit the Christian testimony of President Obama.”

Its called the Bible. I will touch on this point in my defense later.

Then you say “Did he apply the same standards to the Christian testimonies of Presidents Bush, Clinton, Daddy Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Kennedy and the President whom my mother named me after, President Dwight D. Eisenhower?”

I cannot speak of every president mentioned here. I do know what he said about Clinton, because I knew Bro. Jimmy when Clinton was in office. And yes, he did apply the same standards to Clinton.

Then you state “Did Brother Davis ever ask a group of Southern Baptists to pray to God that one or more of the above named Presidents be sent by God into “exile” or be “providentially” removed from office if they didn’t repent?”

So, what you are actually saying here is “because something has never been done before, it is wrong.” OK. Lets see how your logic and reason stands up, by applying your logic to a couple of Biblical events. The first is Jonah. If we use your logic, then when Jonah went to Nineveh and preached that they needed to repent or God was going to destroy them, their response should have been, “Jonah, your message has never been preached before, nor has ever been said before, so it must be wrong.” I am sure that Jonah’s message was offensive, and it hurt. Plus, there was a major issue of racism involved. The Israelites were racist. However, had they not repented at that moment, God would have destroyed them. The same is also true for Israel when Amos and Isaiah came onto the scene, and in 1 Samuel 15:12-26, when Samuel told Saul that God was going to rip the kingdom out of Saul’s grasp. Here, you see men giving offensive statements that would come across as being judgment. It should also be noted, in two of these cases, involved people who believed that they were God’s people.

So, you see Dr. McKissic, your argument that Jimmy Davis is saying something that has not been said about past presidents, therefore is wrong.

“The burden of proof is on Brother Davis to explain why he believes President Obama is not a Christian.”

Already touched on that.

“The burden of proof is on Brother Davis to explain why he considers President Obama the most wicked President in American history. The burden of proof is on Brother Davis to explain why he considers President Obama more wicked than the slavery/segregation promoting Presidents. The burden of proof is on Brother Davis to explain why he considers President Obama to be more wicked than President Clinton, President Nixon, or a host of other American Presidents. The burden of proof is on Brother Davis to explain why he believes it is exegetically accurate to compare a theocratic King-Manasseh/Israel, with a secular President – Obama/U.S.A., and hold them to the same standard and judgment.”

Did you ever stop and think that God inspired Bro. Jimmy to say these things? If God did inspire Jimmy Davis to say this, then the burden of proof in not on Jimmy Davis any more than it was on Samuel. The burden of proof is actually on you to prove that he was not inspired by God.

So you see, Dr. McKissic, your opening argument CONTAINS SEVERAL GLARING ERRORS, and therefore your argument collapses.

I would like to now begin my defense by referring to Mrs. Darla’s comment. She points out better than anyone here that there are two issues involved on this blog. The original issue is that Bro. Jimmy’s comments are racist. The second issue is that Bro. Jimmy’s comments are judgmental.

First, I want to comment on the issue of Bro. Jimmy’s comments being judgmental.

I do not agree with the politically correct belief of “You shall not judge.” The Bible teaches that you are supposed to. Matthew 7:1 is a passage that is often used to support the argument that you should not judge. However, people who use this verse in this manner evidently forget about the following five verses. If you consider verses 2-5, then you will see that verse 1 is actually a warning about the standard you use, and the spirit in which you carry it out. Furthermore, verse 6 teaches that we should “not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pears before swine.” If you apply Jesus’ teaching here, then you have to make judgment calls about people. You cannot do verse 6 without doing so. The same is true in 2 Timothy 3:1-5 (part of which I referenced earlier). Paul gives a long list of the characteristics of people, and then states in the beginning of verse 5 that these people will hold “to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power.” Then Paul goes on to say, “avoid such men as these.” Now, how are you going to avoid these men if you do not first recognize who they are? And how are you going to recognize who they are, if you do not judge them to be so? You can’t! This is common sense stuff. The same is true of Psalm 1, when it states “How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, nor stand in the path of sinners, nor sit in the seat of scoffers!” You cannot follow the teaching of Psalm 1 if you do not distinguish between righteousness and wickedness.

I know that this goes against the modern, watered down, perverted, and politically correct view of “You can’t judge!” – a view that a great percentage of pastors today believe; however, this IS NOT THE TEACHING OF THE BIBLE! The Bible teaches instead, that “we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them (Ephesians 2:10). The Bible also teaches that clearly that “if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature” (2 Cor 5:17), and teaches that genuine believers “should repent and turn to God, keeping deeds appropriate to repentance” (Acts 26:20), that they will bear fruit – are even appointed to do so (Jn 15:16), to “bear fruits in keeping with repentance” (Lk 3:8), and that by bearing fruit, Christians “PROVE to be [Christ’s] disciples” (Jn 15:8). The Scriptures also teach that “faith without works is dead” (Jas 2:26), and that the “bad tree bears bad fruit” (Matt 7:17). In 2 Corinthians 13:5, Paul even commands for us to “examine” ourselves to see if “Jesus Christ is in” us, and even if we are sure that Christ is in us, we still need to examine ourselves on such occasions as the Lord’s Supper (1 Cor 11:28). And as Christians, we are even supposed to go to our brother who is in sin and “show him his fault” (Matt 18:15). This does not mean that we do it with an attitude of self-righteousness or out of spite, but rather out of spirit of love (Gal 6:1) because we love our brothers and sisters and want them to turn back to the truth and do well (Jas 5:19-20).

These are not my words, these are the very words of God.

So you see that the Bible not only teaches that you will have to make judgment calls, but goes even further and teaches us how to do it! And you should notice that in all of these judgment calls, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT A PERSON SAYS; WHAT MATTERS IS WHAT A PERSON DOES!

The problem is that we have bought into this idea that Christians are not supposed to judge, and we now have a vast majority who are not only ignorant of these teachings, but also do not know how to distinguish righteousness from wickedness, and therefore run the danger of calling “evil good, and good evil,” which is spoke of in Isaiah 5:20. McKissic said, “I’ll leave it to you and Bro. Davis to label him “wicked”. I find no value, good, or purpose accomplished by doing so.” And this is a sad statement. There is plenty of good to be taken out of this, because people need to know that it is OK to stand on God’s Word and completely trust and follow it! People in our churches need to be able to identify righteousness and wickedness when they see it! People in our churches need to know that it is OK to label “wicked” and “righteous,” and to not walk with sinners! (Ps 1) People in our churches need to be able to know that it is OK to stand up and say that Wickedness is wrong!

Right now – AS WE SPEAK – you have a leader who has just passed a bill which will allow for abortions to be funded by the government, not to further mention his admitted beliefs and policies regarding homosexuality (which Dr. McKissic even admits are “promotion policies”), and you are defending him. To top it off, you have a preacher who is actually making a stand against him, and you are attacking him. To put it in Dr. McKissic’s words, “unrighteous, unbiblical, race based or simply wrong.”

Let me just quote Isaiah 5:20 to you” “woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!”

You need to look at this really hard, because this is exactly what you are doing. It is so sad because we have pastors who are coming on to this website and are so blind that they cannot even see it! To sum up our current state, “The priests did not say, ‘Where is the Lord?’ And those who handle the law did not know Me; The rulers also transgressed against Me,” and “the prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule on their own authority; And My people love it so!” (Jer 2:8a, 5:31)

Perhaps the major problem is that you believe that the Bible has errors in it. This is baffling to me. I guess in your eyes, my argument about judging between righteousness and wickedness, as well as accountability, are just errors. Is this what you think? If you really believe that the Bible has errors in it, how do you know what those errors are? How do you know Paul, when he wrote “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God’ not as a result of works, so that no one may boast” that he was right? Just because the Bible says something that you do not agree with does not mean that it is in error.

I debate atheists, Dr. McKissic. In fact, this is the first time I have ever made a defense on a Christian website. And after nearly four years and numerous debates, I have found that the Bible can be completely trusted, and a person can base their belief system on it. You believe that Bible has errors, and I am truly sorry for you.

You can choose to obey God’s Word, believe it is wrong, or even ignore it; but you cannot change what it says.

We can continue to debate on this first issue, but as for the second issue, Bro. Jimmy’s comments being racist, it has been shown that Bro. Jimmy’s comments are not racist. I believe that, if you are honest, you will admit this as well. Mrs. Darla really demonstrated this in her comment, “Now to get out of the damage you’ve done to Bro,. Jimmy Davis and his family, you are trying to find other things wrong with his sermon and make this racial issue in the SBC into something different.” That is exactly what has happened here. You can go back through the comments and see that this blog has moved from being a matter of racism to a matter of judging. After putting Davis’ comments into context, and the testimony of Davis’ character that has been presented here, it would be foolish to make that argument that Davis is racist or even that his message is racist. I know you say that you did not call him racist, but you did. As Darla states, you are doing everything you can to find problems with Davis’ message. You are stepping all over yourself and people can come and see it.

I do not expect you to concede the first issue. You are not Biblical enough. However, you are wrong on the second issue.

You claim yourself to be a Christian. It is time for your actions to back your words.

Its time to grow a backbone and make an apology for painting a picture of Davis as racist.

Reply
1. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
  
  May 11, 2010 at 4:03 pm
  Pastor Kenneth Reiter,
  You asked, “How can you know these scriptures that I just listed, know what President Obama believes, and not call him wicked”? The Bible says, “Honor the King” (I Peter 2:17). When Peter wrote this, the Christians were serving under a “wicked” Emperor or King; yet Peter said, “Honor the King”. Therefore, I will not call President Obama “wicked.”
  
  The Southern Baptists of Texas have several Black churches and some Democrats who belong to the SBTC. Most of them would disagree that the President is “wicked.” The reason I brought up the diversity of the SBC is because unless the SBC/SBTC wants to remain a convention that appeals primarily to Southerners, Republicans and Whites, they need to be aware that prayer requests for President Obama to be “exiled” or “providentially” removed from office are problematic and a poor witness to the world of Southern Baptists.
  
  If people think Brother Jimmy Davis is a racist, it’s not because of my words; the people heard Brother Jimmy Davis in his own words and formed their own conclusions. You and I will simply have to agree to disagree on this matter.
  
  As it relates to apologizing to Bro. Davis, I’ve made it clear when one provide me with recorded evidence that Bro. Davis have prayed for other presidents to be “exiled” and “providentially” removed, I will call Bro. Davis and apologize and post it on my blog. When Brother Davis or you can explain why President Obama is more “wicked” than the slaveholding presidents/Nixon/Clinton and others, I will gladly apologize.
  
  Pastor Kenneth, you are right: “making an apology and admitting that you are wrong is hard…(and) you… have to swallow some pride and it will take some courage”. However, in this instance, it is easy. I just need some evidence that ought to be easy to provide.
  
  In response to Ms. Loris comment “Since the news story, the black children who attend our church faithfully have not been at church.” Perhaps by now they have returned, or may ‘be their absence had nothing to do with the Channel 11 news story. However, I believe that it is emotionally and mentally unhealthy for those “black children” to be in an environment where perhaps they are being taught or led by people who believe President Obama is “wicked” and should be “exiled” or providentially” removed from office. I’m sure that there are other options available to them, that does not pose these difficulties.
  
  Pastor Reiter, you, Bro. Davis and many other Southern Baptists reject President Obama’s Christian testimony. I respect your right to do so. Not withstanding, the eye- opening video by Ms. Charity that I will later address, I see no evidence on the video that disprove that President Obama is a Christian. Again, we will simply have to agree to disagree on this matter. I’m willing to leave the final judgment regarding President Obama’s and President George Bush’s salvation to God; not to you, Bro. Davis, or your “three good Pastor friends who are African [who] _ _ _ agree with Jimmy Davis.”
  
  Pastor, you state “Perhaps the major problem is that you believe that the Bible has errors in it (#13).” I certainly do not believe that the Bible has errors in it. Nothing could be farther from the truth. How you arrived at this conclusion is a mystery to me.
  I’ve never painted Bro. Jimmy as a racist. He made some bold, daring and controversial statements that have now been exposed beyond a Southern, Republican and predominately Anglo setting. Outside of the setting I just described, his remarks are viewed at the very least as inappropriate and by others (not me) as race based or racist. Because I accept your testimony and the testimony of his family, I don’t believe his remarks are racist – and I’ve never said that. I do believe his remarks were inappropriate. Again, we will simply agree to disagree.
  
  Pastor Reiter, I have a backbone. Why do you think I’m addressing this issue when others are just content to whisper in the shadows. As a matter of fact, I would be willing to meet with you, Bro. Davis, his son and daughter and all of his supporters at the location of your choosing to prayerfully, respectfully, biblically and humbly address these issues. I am not convinced that either of us would change the other’s mind. However, we could leave with a greater understanding, appreciation and respect for each other, and affirm our unity in Christ and love for each other, although we have different opinions on this matter. You must admit that it would take a lot of backbone and courage to meet with you and Bro. Jake Davis. Until or when you take me up on my offer I question if the Kingdom would be better served if we cease dialoguing about this matter. The question now is do you have the “backbone” to take me up on my offer.
  As it relates to abortion, it is horrible. However, a person can be wrong about abortion (as in the case of President Obama) and right about salvation.
  
  Reply
Debbie Says:

May 8, 2010 at 10:49 pm
I heard Brother Jimmy’s WHOLE sermon and felt a sincere burden to pass on the prayer request to other believers to pray for our presidents salvation. Yesterday is gone (as are the other ungodly presidents) and all we have is now (and our current president). We need to pray for our presidents salvation! God bless America and brave pastors like Brother Jimmy who heed God’s call and are not afraid to preach what they believe God lays on their heart!

Reply
1. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
  
  May 11, 2010 at 4:14 pm
  Ms. Debbie,
  Thanks for visiting, we simply will agree to disagree.
  
  Reply
Darla Says:

May 9, 2010 at 7:11 am
I do not see how, after watching the link that Charity posted of President Obama speaking, ANYONE, and I repeat ANYONE could believe that he is a Christian.

And thanks again to Bro. Kenneth for using God’s Word, for his defense. It cannot be argued with.

Dr. McKissick, are your sermons inspired by God through prayer? Or do you just find a good story and pick out for yourself what you think would be good to say for the listening audience? Really, I want to know. Does God give you the message or do you pick it and then pray for God to use it to change lives? Or is it wrong to ask God to change lives? In other words does God use you or do you use Him? Think about it.

Reply
1. Darla Says:
  
  May 10, 2010 at 9:55 am
  I also noted you said you’ve read his(Obama’s) Christian testimony. Where could I find a copy of that? I’d really like to read what he wrote. Thank you.
  
  Reply
2. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
  
  May 11, 2010 at 4:16 pm
  Ms. Darla,
  I’ve responded to Ms. Charity about the Obama “Muslim” video. Please read my comments to her. Ms. Darla, I will try to collect all the statements concerning President Obama’s Christian testimony and eventually post on it. I will also try and get my secretary to tell you where you can find these statements. Thanks for visiting. Until then, I will give you the last word on this matter if you so choose.
  
  Reply
Kenneth Reiter Says:

May 11, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Dr. McKissic,

I noticed that you have not replied. I have a couple more things for you to ponder. Go to the website below and read the post. Feel free to click on “Forum” and follow through to the discussion board and blast away.

WARNING: This link contains a graphic image that may be hurtful and offensive.

http://www.elegcho.com/McKissic_vs.html

Reply
1. Kenneth Reiter Says:
  
  May 11, 2010 at 2:58 pm
  I hope that you do not mind me doing it this way. I did not want to post this on your website, but I did want you to see this.
  
  I want you to honestly think about it.
  
  Reply
Kenneth Reiter Says:

May 11, 2010 at 5:45 pm
First, let me apologize for my accusation against you. I misread your post where you stated that you strongly disagreed with Bush on his view of the Scriptures. I read that you strongly agreed with him.

So, I do sincerely apologize. Forgive me for my apparent blindness.

I will pray that you will forgive me for my trespass against you.

As for your reply to my post, I am appreciative. I realize that you do not have to take time out of your day to respond, therefore I am grateful. However, you did not address anything that I said about your argument (other than the mistake I made about saying you believe the Bible contains errors). And for that, I am not so appreciative.

Dr. McKissic, your reasoning seems to be flawed. You claim that Bro. Jimmy’s message was wrong, and what is your reasoning? that it “is not apparent to all.”?

Is this really the kind of reasoning that you will give?

While you are quick to take up for the argument that Obama is righteous, you have not given one piece of evidence to demonstrate that Bro. Jimmy’s message was not inspired by God. The only thing that you have stated on the matter is that Bro. Jimmy’s was inappropriate, etc. Why?

You make your entire case solely upon your own reasoning, which is based upon your own worldview, which is motivated by your agenda to see discrimination in the SBC.

Dr. McKissic, don’t misunderstand me here. Sure you claim that you did not literally call Bro. Jimmy a racist. But go and look at the title of your original blog, and then consider that you used Jimmy Davis’ message as an example. What conclusion did you think that people were going to draw?

Now, how can you do this, and then in the same breath claim that you were not calling Bro. Jimmy a racist?

I do not understand this. I would love to hear your reasoning on this.

I do not know if you went and looked at the post on my site. Forgive me for asking you to do this, but I wanted to make the point and I did not want to post it on your site. Now, do you really think that someone could really be a Christian and then go and look at that image, see that poor child’s motionless arms and legs, see all of the blood that is coming from its ravaged body, and then agree that abortion is OK?

I just do not see how Dr. McKissic. I have worked with several women who had abortions – some of which are my own family. I know how their heart aches, so I am not talking about them (Some of these women have been let down. They needed encouragement and received none. Their action is more of a judgment on us).However, I am talking about the people who have never been in their shoes, and not only support abortion, but even in some cases pressure a woman to get one.

Or in the case of President Obama, help pave to road to make it even easier.

And as for an arranged meeting, Dr. McKissic, I would meet with you wherever you wanted. Trust me, I will not have to grow a backbone to it – it will not bother me one bit. If the people on this blog would be willing to meet somewhere, I will drive wherever that meeting is at, regardless how far away. I would love for you to meet Jimmy Davis personally, and I would like to meet you. I would really like to meet some of the people on this blog while still on this earth, rather than waiting until heaven.

Reply
Jake Davis Says:

May 12, 2010 at 11:46 am
First, let me state that I will not meet face to face with you. I have had enough of this and frankly I am amazed that I am responding to this again. There are a few things that you have correct sir: 1. I do love my dad! 2. His message will yield heavenly fruit. 3. This will blow over eventually but not until many sleepless night and worriesome days for both my parents. 4. He will receive a crown in heaven and I can only hope mine will be 1/4 of the size of his.
I will decline on my part to the proposed meeting for a few reasons: 1. It won’t do a bit of good. 2. I got more important things to waste my time doing. 3. It will probably just make me even madder than I already am.
No matter how this shakes out know that I will go to my grave defending my dad and the words that he preaches.
In closing let me make this one last statement that I have heard from many preachers and in particular an old country preacher friend of my dad’s, “If you feel like I am stepping on your toes with this sermon, it ain’t me I am up here in the pulpit, so it’s gotta be God!”

Reply
pastoralan Says:

May 12, 2010 at 10:00 pm
WOW, unreal dialogue. I was not at the Evangelism Conference. So I can’t comment with expert knowledge. But these things I do know from fact.

1. Dwight McKissic is a godly pastor who has a desire to “make disciples of ALL NATIONS.”

2. No matter what the intent, a pastor should not preach a message in public if he’s not ready to reap the fruit for the message after it’s preached. The prophets sometimes have to reap a prophets reward. No one knows that better than Dwight McKissic 🙂 just ask Dr. Paige Patterson. If a pastor says he has a “word from the Lord” he had better be sure. OR, was it application of a passage he choose without considering the fallout? I don’t have the answer. I am a preacher. I know I’ve applied things to only later wish I could take it back. It’s not that I wouldn’t say truth. It’s that it didn’t help the audience follow God.

3. I’m White. But I know the depths of racial pain. Even if the message about the President is true (that he’s not a Christian), when a Black person hears the message in a huge Anglo crowd, he or she will be offended. The offense will come even if the Black person agrees with the message (that the President is not a true believer). It’s a race thing: HELLO! Is beating up the President in public the strategy we want to use to reach people who are Black? Or are Democrat?

As a matter of fact, I was in an Expository Preaching Conference once when a prominent Black preacher from Dallas soooo disrespected President Bush (GW). I was not as concerned about his content as I was the fact that there were White preachers in the mostly Black crowd and this preacher didn’t have enough sensitivity to know that was not the place for the message. The issue goes both ways. And I didn’t ever listen to him again.

4. We need to be civil and Christian in our discussion. We are the ones who can make a difference in the matter of race. Yes, feelings have been hurt, but again it’s a two way street. If we as Christians don’t win together, we lose.

I was not there, but I can’t imagine I would ever want to go to an Evangelism Conference just to hear someone beat up on the President of the United States (no matter his party, color, or creed) from behind the sacred desk. Don’t we have more to do than that? I’m not a fan of the President, but it’s not my job to preach him. It’s my job to preach the gospel.

My hope is that this discussion can move from hurt to help. If it doesn’t, there’s only pain in our future, not life change, not freedom, only separation, division, and decimation of the Christian landscape and Church at large.

Reply
1. Kenneth Reiter Says:
  
  May 14, 2010 at 1:30 pm
  Pastoralan,
  
  I have been really busy the past couple of days, so I did not have time to get here.
  
  Let me start off by saying that I know both Jimmy Davis and Paige Patterson. And I would say that BOTH are Godly men as well. Dr. Patterson has turned Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary around. I know students who were there before he got there and were there after he became president, and it was their testimony that made me consider Southwestern. Had it not been for them, and the return to that Southwestern made to more Biblical roots, then I probably would have attended either Golden Gate or Criswell (I like Golden Gate’s work in missions). I do not know Dr. McKissic personally, but I accept your statement. I do believe him to be a man who seeks to follow God. I just think that he gets wrapped up in his own agenda at time. I disagree with what he is doing here. I think he is wrong, because I believe beyond the shadow of a doubt that Jimmy Davis’ message was from God. Pastoralan, GOD put Davis on the platform, behind the “sacred desk,” and put the words in his mouth. I know this.
  
  I just didn’t expect his message to be attacked by my fellow Christian Brothers and Sisters, and I definitely did not think it to be a racist message.
  
  I really saw your point of view about the conference you attended in which President Bush was disrespected. I wonder if that is how the people in Nineveh felt when Jonah went and preached to them that they were doing things that were wicked in God’s eyes? Anyway, I am sorry that you had to experience that, and I apologize to all the Africans who may have experienced the same feelings at the SBT Evangelism conference. It does not change the fact that it is true.
  
  And unlike you and Dr. McKissic, I do believe we need to address the political situation. Ironically, I believe this for the same reason that McKissic believes you shouldn’t – the context. I don’t think that you want to hear the argument so I am not going to give it, but if you do really, really want to know – just ask.
  
  Thanks for you comment patoralan. It made me think, and I sincerely appreciate that.
  
  Reply
2. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
  
  May 14, 2010 at 5:14 pm
  Pastor Alan,
  
  Thanks for weighing in. A balanced and unique perspective. It made Pastor Kenneth think. My conversation with him has been circular. Thank God, yours was linear. Don’t give up your heart and passion for racial reconciliation. I know at times we all want to throw in the towel.
  
  Reply
Kenneth Reiter Says:

May 14, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Dr. McKissic, I do “honor the king” (1 Peter 2:17). Honor, which comes from timao, means “to estimate in respect of worth” (William D. Mounce) and I definitely do that. I love President Obama. If I did not love and honor President Obama, then I would not pray for his salvation – I do not want him to die and go to hell. And if you go and read 1 Peter 2:17, you will see that the verse starts out by saying “honor all men,” using the same word in reference to all men as in his charge to “honor the king.” And I do this as well. That is why I tell the truth. I tell people the gospel. I tell people that they are sinners, just as I am, but Jesus Christ died for us and all we have to do is repent and put our faith in Christ. Lying is not demonstrating love, nor honor.

And by the way Dr. McKissic, if you are so sure that President Obama is saved, why don’t you do what the Scriptures say and go and confront him in private? (Matt 18:15, Gal. 6:1; James 5) I mean, if he is truly a Christian, then he is a fellow brother, and the Holy Spirit is in his life. You admitted that President Obama possesses a head knowledge of the Gospel message, so there is no sense in witnessing to him, and it also means he has more than enough revelation to accept Christ. However, if he is truly a Christian, maybe all he needs is for someone to hold him accountable. Dr. McKissic (if you are reading this), you are probably prominent enough that you could get an audience with him. What if you are right? What if he truly is saved? Perhaps if he is saved then if you confront him, he will be convicted by the Holy Spirit and repent. If President Obama confessed that his policies are wicked, and repent of that, and then came out with a public acknowledgment, something maybe like this:

“I have been wrong in the past, and from this point on until my presidency ends, I am committed to being a leader who is pleasing to God. I begin by retracting my homosexual and abortion policies, and I commit to overturning Roe. Vs Wade because it is wrong.”

If he did this, and thus proved that he was really saved, I would apologize where I stand. I would personally write him a letter and apologize. I would commit to standing behind his leadership. I am being completely sincere here.

And if I am right and Obama is not saved, maybe he will get saved.

Either way (I do not care who is right), if President Obama listened to you Dr. McKissic, and either repented (in the case that he is saved), or repented and put his faith in Christ (in the event that he is not saved), and then turned this thing around, WOULDN’T THAT BE AWESOME?!!!

Will you be willing to pray about this and consider going?

Reply
Kenneth Reiter Says:

May 14, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Oh, and I forgot to ask you Dr. McKissic.

Why will you not extend that same honor that you have for President Obama to Jimmy Davis?

1 Peter 2:17 does command us to honor “ALL MEN.” And as I stated, tt is the same word used as to “honor the king.”

So why won’t you show the same honor for Jimmy Davis that you do for President Obama?

Reply
1. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
  
  May 14, 2010 at 5:17 pm
  Pastor Kenneth,
  
  First of all, I accept President Obama’s Christian testimony as I would anyone else who gave a clear statement of faith that Christ died for their sins and they have trusted Him for salvation.
  
  Secondly, when it was discovered that my history, values and belief system is more aligned with the Republican Party than the Democratic Party, a scheduled radio interview in the Dallas area during the 2008 Presidential campaign where President Obama and I were to serve on a panel, and I would have had an opportunity to question him was cancelled. I was disinvited from being on the panel to question then Presidential Candidate Barack Obama. Therefore, I’m not as optimistic as you are that I could get an audience with President Obama. I am willing to pray about this, ask God to open the door and I would surely walk through the door respectfully share my biblical convictions on these issues.
  
  Thirdly, I honor Rev. Jimmy Davis. I respect the work, gift and office of an evangelist/revivalist. I would welcome Rev. Davis as a guest preacher in my pulpit, provided he not address the Obama issue. I will even make a donation to his ministry and pray for him. I hope that you can arrange a meeting with him. I believe in “honoring” Evangelists and Pastors.
  
  Finally, thank you for not printing the picture of the aborted child on my website. However, I’m still waiting on the answer to my question, were the Baptists slaveowners Christians at the time they owned the slaves? The picture of the aborted child on your website reminds of what the slaves looked like after they were beaten, brutalized and often murdered by Baptists slaveowners. Surely, if you believe that the slaveowners were Christians, could not President Obama be a Christian although he supports abortion?
  
  Reply
  1. Kenneth Reiter Says:
    
    May 17, 2010 at 8:20 am
    Dr. McKissic, you mean to tell me that you can look at the picture of that aborted child and think of slavery? Wow! I think that its safe to say that my comments “You make your entire case solely upon your own reasoning, which is based upon your own worldview, which is motivated by your agenda to see discrimination in the SBC”(17) and “I just think that he gets wrapped up in his own agenda at time”(19) are right on.
    
    Who are you so mad at Dr. McKissic? Why are you so bitter?
    I pray that you will overcome this and get a victory here.
    I love you.
    
    I am sorry if my conversation with you seems to be circular. I have brought certain things up more than once simple because you have not answered them. And speaking of, I am going to answer your question about Southern Baptist slaveholders. Keep in mind that I am doing this despite the fact that you have not extended me the same courtesy as you have left several of my objections unaddressed (ex. 3, 13).
    
    Regarding the Southern Baptist slaveholders, this is actually an easy question. If any of them placed their faith in Christ and repented of their sins then yes they went to heaven.
  2. Kenneth Reiter Says:
    
    May 17, 2010 at 9:57 am
    Excuse, me, I meant “If any of them placed their faith in Christ and repented of their sins then yes” they were Christians.
    
    And for your comment “could not President Obama be a Christian although he supports abortion?” I have already addressed it (5).
  3. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
    
    May 17, 2010 at 11:54 am
    Pastor Kenneth,
    Yes. I can think of slavery when I look at the picture of the aborted child because you are using this picture to disqualify President’s Obama’s salvation. What’s the difference between the brutalized baby resulting from abortion and the brutalized slaves? And if the brutalized baby means President Obama is not a Christian then the brutalized slaves would mean the Baptists slaveholders were not Christians? Pastor Kenneth, please explain why my logic is faulty here?
    Pastor Kenneth, I am not mad or bitter. God has given me the victory, that’s why I belong to the SBC and fellowship with SBC brethren.
    I want to specifically address any question that you have. I’m uncertain as to what unanswered issue you are referring to in #3 and #13. Please ask a specific question(s) and I will give you a specific answer.
    I admit that I’m slow. But I can’t determine from #5 what’s your clear answer to the question, Does the fact that President Obama believes in abortion negate his clear Christian testimony?
Debbie Kaufman Says:

May 17, 2010 at 5:07 am
Forgive me for being blunt, this comment section is very telling. I am a white Southern Baptist Christian seeing other white Southern Baptist Christians telling Dwight McKissic, who knows how his church would react that they shouldn’t react this way.

I read the words of Jimmy Davis and I certainly would have labeled the words racist or at the minor, totally inappropriate for a Christian to be saying. To tell Dwight he shouldn’t react in this way is just ridiculous. As for the video, I agree that Obama was simply showing respect for the Muslim people and religion as any head of state should do. That is all it showed.

We need to begin listening to those who we offend, it’s like slapping someone and then saying why are you offended? This offended black churches. An I am sorry that you were offended would be the proper response. Not a long drawn out you shouldn’t be offended. I was offended and yes he should have. It was done publicly, yes Dr. McKissic should have written a post about it. I’m certainly glad he spoke up, no one else has or will.

Reply
1. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
  
  May 17, 2010 at 6:16 pm
  Debbie,
  You have come into the Kingdom for an hour such as this. I admire your courage and backbone. You are doing the body of Christ a great service blogging on the Ergun Caner matter. God is using you to guard the integrity and purity of Christ’s body. I celebrate you as a Baptist Heroine. Thanks for visiting. I love you.
  
  Reply
Kenneth Reiter Says:

May 17, 2010 at 3:04 pm
Well, first of all you did not specify Baptist slave owners who “brutalized slaves.” Your original question was the very general question, “were the Baptists slaveowners Christians at the time they owned the slaves?” Yes, I believe some of them were saved. Not all of the Southern Baptist slaveholders were cruel to their slaves. Some of them were just and fair, “knowing that [they] too have a Master in heaven.” (Colossians 4:1; Ephesians 6:9) Some were probably like Philemon, who owned a slave but yet was called by the Apostle Paul, “a beloved brother” (Philemon 1:1)

In regards to Southern Baptist slave owners WHOSE LIFESTYLE WAS CHARACTERIZED by brutalizing their slaves, yes, I would question their salvation as well as President Obama’s. Their fruit was definitely wicked.

I am NOT saying that it is impossible for a Christian to do these things. What I am saying is that if a Christian does do these things then they will be convicted of it and will repent.

David is an example of that. He committed adultery and murder. But notice that his actions were followed by true repentance (2 Samuel 12:13).

As far as Obama’s faith is concerned, I will tell you what I believe. You and I both would agree that President Obama has notitia. I would even weakly agree with you that President Obama has assensus (This would still be a debate, and I am not even sure if I am completely convinced of this myself). However, I do not see any thing that he has done to make me believe that he has fiducia.

And no, I do not believe that a true Christian will continue to do things and hold to beliefs that the Bible clearly states are wicked. And by the way, slavery, unlike homosexuality and abortion, is not one of these things. You are equating slavery to the act of homosexuality and abortion, and you cannot do this. This is not the teaching of the Scriptures. Homosexuality and the shedding of innocent blood are called abominations (Leviticus 18:22, Proverbs 6:17). 2 Kings 24:3-4 also taught that God would not forgive Judah for shedding innocent blood. This is an interesting event because Manasseh, who Jimmy Davis referred to in his message, was the king during this time.

And yes abortion is condemned. Under the Biblical worldview, human life was the result of God and began at conception (Psalm 139:13-16), and for a person to take life at any time was considered murder, or the shedding of innocent blood. If you understand the Biblical worldview, then yes, abortions are in the same category as any murder, or the shedding of innocent blood. Man is the one who distinguishes between humans and fetus, and murder and abortion. Like Kevin Folger, pastor of Cleveland Baptist Church, Cleveland, Ohio several years ago stated, “We have had 26 years of the most innocent of our society dying in the abortion mills of America.”

Which leads to President Obama. I actually posted the wrong comment number. It was actually comment #3. I stated “And if President Obama is truly a Christian, then the Holy Spirit will convict him.” The Bible is clear on homosexuality and abortion. If Obama continues to hold to his current stance then he is going against God’s Word.

Not my word. Not your word. Not even Jimmy Davis’ word. But GOD’S WORD.

Jesus Christ said that “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments” and went one to say that “If anyone love Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.” (John 14:15, 23)

The clear teaching of God’s Word is that repentance is the mark of true faith. This is the difference in assensus and fiducia. Until President Obama repents, he is wicked. And this does not just go for President Obama, but everyone who has beliefs that God states are wicked.

Dr. McKissic, we are going to know one way or another about President Obama. We are going to know for sure if you are right or if Jimmy Davis is right. If he is truly saved and has God living in him, then he will repent. If he does not, then as I stated earlier, “then he will either get saved or he will [die in his sins and] burn in hell.”

Reply
Kenneth Reiter Says:

May 17, 2010 at 3:30 pm
As far as my “objections” that you have not answered, my comment 13 is loaded with them, and they show that your argument which forms the basis for “the problem” is not Biblical. However, for starters, I would like answers to a couple of objections: The first is, “Give me any evidence at all to prove that Davis’ comments are [not from God and are] ‘simply wrong.’” (3)

And for the second objection:
The clear teaching of the Scriptures is repentance is necessary for true salvation (Isaiah 1:27; 30:15; Jeremiah 5:3; 8:6; Ezekiel 14:6; 18:32; Matt 3:8; 11:20-21; 12:41; Mark 1:4; 1:15; 6:12; Luke 3:3; 3:8; 5:32; 10:13; 11:32; 13:3-5; 15:7-10; 24:47; Acts 3:19; 8:22; 17:30; 26:20; 2 Corinthians 12:21; 2 Peter 3:9; Revelation 2:5, 2:16, 2:21-22, 3:3, 3:19, 9:20-21, 16:9-11).
I have now referred to many passages in various comments which teach that genuine believers will repent and produce fruit. So, show me how any true believer can live a life (or hold to belief system) that upholds things which the Bible teaches are wicked. (13)

And I do not want your reasoning. If you choose to respond to this, base that response on the Scriptures please.

Reply
Kenneth Reiter Says:

May 17, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Let me make one correction: “show me how any true believer can [CONTINUALLY] live a life (or hold to belief system) that upholds things which the Bible teaches are wicked. (13)”

Reply
1. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
  
  May 17, 2010 at 6:14 pm
  Pastor Kenneth,
  I will let you have the last word in this discussion after this comment. You mentioned earlier about me being “angry” and “bitter.” I still am not bitter, but I must confess some of what you say and your lack of understanding is arousing feelings of anger and that’s why I believe it’s best if I limit my conversation.
  
  Pastor Kenneth, you stated, “Not all the Southern Baptist slaveholders were cruel to their slaves.” I recognize that the descendants of the slaves will always view this issue differently than the descendants of the slavemasters, but you need to know than from my perspective (and I believe on this matter I speak for all African Americans) that it is impossible to be a slaveholder and not be cruel to slaves. It is impossible to be a slaveholder and also “just and fair.” Only the descendants of the slaveholders would view it in that regard. I totally reject your premise of being “just and fair” and, “Not all of the Southern Baptist slaveholders were cruel to their slaves.” As it relates to Philemon, I’m sure that you are aware that there was a vast difference between the type of European slavery that was not race based and chattel slavery as was practiced in early America. You are comparing apples to oranges. American slavery was much more cruel, brutal and inhumane than the type of slavery referenced in Philemon. Your failure to understand and to communicate a simplistic, shallow view of this subject is most disheartening.
  
  You question the Christianity of the “Southern Baptist slaveowners WHOSE LIFESTYLE WAS CHARACTERIZED by brutalizing their slave” but you do not classify them as not being Christians. Bro. Davis makes it clear that President Obama is not a Christian and you seem to take this position as well.
  
  You further stated, “you are equating slavery to the act of homosexuality and abortion, and you cannot do this…Homosexuality and the shedding of blood are called abominations.” Pastor Kenneth, you miss the point: SLAVERY IS “ THE SHEDDING OF INNOCENT BLOOD.” Therefore, slavery is an abomination. American slavery was absolutely the shedding of innocent blood. American slavery would be in the same category as abortion and homosexuality.
  
  Pastor Kenneth, I will not attempt to provide you with evidence that Bro. Davis’ comments regarding the “exiling” and “providential” removal of the President are wrong. If this is not apparent to you, nothing will convince you.
  
  Thank you for the scripture references supporting “repentance is necessary for true salvation.” They will help my sermon for this coming Sunday on a totally different subject. However, to answer your question, many genuine believers held to wrong beliefs for a period about many different subject prior to being convicted and repenting. Because, a believer holds a “ wicked” belief system on a given subject, it does not not negate that believers, salvation (Galatians 2:11-18).
  
  Pastor Kenneth, thanks for your time and this most meaningful dialogue. I’d like to meet you someday. I would even like to debate these matters with you publicly after I calm down. I love you with the love of the Lord.
  
  Reply
  1. Darla Says:
    
    May 17, 2010 at 7:29 pm
    I wasn’t going to post another thing on here, but this is not even about Jimmy Davis…I have a question.
    
    How is it “impossible to be a slaveholder and be just & fair” Is it true that when freed, some slaves would rather stay right where they were because they were treated well…or should I say, just & fair, not cruel. Could it be that some slaveholders just viewed their slave as a working hand or helper? I understand a human owning another human is not fair, but couldn’t they have been treated fairly? Anything is possible with God. A pastor should be the first to never say “It is impossible”, don’t you think? Just a question.
    
    I am not at all condoning slavery or saying it was ok. Praise God America changed!!!!!! Maybe some pastor prayed for the President’s repentence, or salvation… And then America headed in the right direction!
  2. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
    
    May 18, 2010 at 9:53 am
    Ms. Darla, thanks for visiting again. Being a slaveholder while also being “just and fair” is like being a rapist or a burglar while at the same time maintaining that you were “just and fair” toward the person you were raping or burglarizing. Slavery was the burglary of a people, and in many cases the assault, rape, murder and pillaging of a people. It is impossible to be engaged in this type of violence toward a people and at the same time be “just and fair.” Slavery was a two hundred year non stop riot against a people.
    The reason that “some slaves would rather stay right where they were because they were treated well _ _ _ or not cruel” is because after multiple generations of slavery in America (1619-1863) some had grown accustomed to slavery and simply accepted it as a way of life, just as children who are kidnapped and remain with their captors for an extended period of time, tend to adjust to or accommodate the perverse relationship simply as a matter of survival. For some slaves it was difficult to adjust to freedom if all you’ve known was slavery for two hundred years.
    I certainly do not equate the slaves with animals, however, perhaps you can understand why some slaves wanted to remain with their Masters if you understand why some animals once “broken in” and domesticated want to remain with their owners. The fact that some slaves wanted to remain with their former owners still does not mean that the former slaveowners can be described as “just and fair.” The act of slavery was not “just or fair” and because some slaveowners may have been less cruel than others does not mean the less cruel ones deserve a “pat on the back.” You cannot hold another human against their will and at the same time treat them “fairly.” If I burglarize someone’s home and hold them hostage or kidnap them and take them to my home, no matter how “just and fair” that I may be toward the persons, they would never describe my actions as “just and fair.”
    
    Ms. Darla, I believe your question was an innocent and sincere question and I appreciate you asking.
    
    Ms. Darla, you asked, “Could it be that some slaveholders just viewed their slave as a working hand or helper?” My answer is, yes, that’s how the slavemaster viewed it. But the issue of slavery is that the slavemaster had the wrong view. And I can assure you that the slave and the slavemaster didn’t share the same viewpoint. And as we can see, the descendants of slaves and descendants of slavemasters often don’t share the same viewpoint.
Anonymous Says:

May 17, 2010 at 9:30 pm
Reconciliation is where we are! God has done this so we can see ourselves.

Reply
Kenneth Reiter Says:

May 17, 2010 at 10:55 pm
Dr. McKissic, you are giving me the last word, so I will take it.

As far as my understanding is concerned, my degree was a combination of History, Anthropology, and Theology. I have studied the area of slavery in great amount because of the history and anthropology requirements. So, just because my understanding does not line up with yours does not mean that I do not have understanding. And it also does not mean that my view is “shallow” and “simplistic.” It just means that my view does not line up with yours.

And who says that I am a descendant from a slavemaster? You do not know any thing at all about my background. Check out my last name, and see my ancestry. My father’s people did not even get to the United States until several decades after the Civil War.

And as far as the “just” and “fair” are concerned, those are the very words of the Bible in the context of slave masters (Col 4:1). In fact, if you back up in those two passages and examine the preceding text, you will find the commandment of slaves to be obedient to your masters (Eph 6:5; Col 3:22). So, your issue is not with my words, but the words of God. And the Greek word behind “slave” in the two referenced passages is a form of the word “doulos” which is “a slave, or servant, of various degrees.” (Mounce)

But, I kind of believe that you already know all of this.

And yes you are correct. There is a vast difference in European slavery and the slavery found in the United States. You listed one difference, so now let me list a difference: In the United States, slaves might be beaten and murdered. If you were a Roman slave, you might get crucified (yes, nailed to a cross) and murdered. Just because there is a difference does not mean that it is any worse. Roman slavery, which forms the context for the Biblical writers (Philemon), was just as brutal and evil as slavery in the United States. Slavery, it does not matter if it was the Hebrews, Egyptians, Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Southerners, or today in various parts of the world, is still about one human owning another. This is one thing that all have in common, and in that respect I was comparing apples to apples. How slaves are treated, which is what you brought up, is another issue.

Remember, you are the one who made that distinction. I had to go back and answer you question again. If fact, I began that response by stating, “Well, first of all you did not specify Baptist slave owners who “brutalized slaves.” Your original question was the very general question, “were the Baptists slaveowners Christians at the time they owned the slaves?” (23). There is a difference in these two questions, both of which were brought up by you (Initial and Final responses to Comment 21).

And you are right about Philemon; he was different. I believe that Philemon was a great master, who followed the teachings set forth for masters that are found in Ephesians 6:9 and Colossians 4:1. Had he not, I believe that you would have seen a strong rebuke from Paul in his letter to Philemon. I never compared Philemon to the GENERAL OVERALL slavery of the United States; I compared him to specific examples of Southerners who treated their slaves well. You are the one who made the GENERAL OVERALL slavery in the United States to Philemon comparison.

And for your comment, “You question the Christianity of the “Southern Baptist slaveowners WHOSE LIFESTYLE WAS CHARACTERIZED by brutalizing their slave.” I guess I did not say it clear enough. So, let me set the record straight and come right out and say it Dr. McKissic. For those Christian slave masters, who brutalized and murdered their slaves and never repented of it, yes, I believe that they are in hell.

And you are right. For slave masters who murdered their slaves, they were guilty of shedding innocent blood. I never said that they were not. I simply said that the shedding of innocent blood is called an abomination in the Bible, but slavery is not. As far as American slavery is concerned, not all American slave-owners were abominable. Some taught their slaves to read, and when I was in the university, I read accounts of slaves who would not leave the Southern plantations because they were treated so well. (The provision that the Bible makes for a slave to remain in slavery forever comes to mind [Deuteronomy 15:16-17]). I understand that these examples are few, but do not make the mistake of thinking that it was all an abomination.

You are the one who brought up slavery. I kind of see the point that you were trying to make, but I do not completely understand why you used slavery. We are 150 years removed from it. I was simply making the argument that slavery is not in the same class of sin as homosexuality and abortions. The list of sins that make God’s abomination list is short. Abortion and homosexuality are on it. Slavery is not. That is all I was saying.

And on that note, let it be known that I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE BIBLE CONDONES SLAVERY. I just stated that the Bible does not call it an abomination – And these two statements are not the same thing. Biblical support of slavery is an argument that atheists love to use, so I have had to go toe-to-toe with many an atheist on this issue. Therefore, I am well aware of it. However, the fact still is that, outside of condemnations on kidnappers and slave-traders (Exodus 21:16; 1 Timothy 1:8-10), there are no Biblical passages condemning slavery, much less calling it an abomination. However, there are plenty of Biblical passages that teach condemnation on the sins of homosexuality and abortion, which are supported by our current president. Thus, my argument.

But now, President Obama is not wicked… ya right.. LOL!!!

I have simply stated Biblical facts here. They stand as they are. So do not take issue with me; take it up with God. He wrote it. Or in the case of slavery, didn’t write it.

And as far as your lack of evidence to support your argument that Jimmy Davis’ sermon was not from God, you will not give any because you cannot. There is nothing unscriptural about his message. The only attack that you could make on him was based upon your own reasoning which was founded upon your own agenda. The Scriptures are the lenses that we use to examine the legitimacy of a message. Our personal agendas and rationale are not.

You are correct in your statement that the final judgment of President Obama’s salvation is up to God. God is the only one who knows a man’s heart. However, this was never the issue. The fact was, and remains, that President Obama’s policies are wicked (at least according to the Scriptures), and therefore until he repents, he is wicked. President Obama is smart and is a fantastic orator. I am sorry that you fell for him.

And you are dead on in your comment “many genuine believers held to wrong beliefs for a period.” That is the point that I have been making from the start. Many believers hold to wrong beliefs for a PERIOD. However, eventually they come around and correct their view and repent.

We will see about President Obama…

And notice in that passage that you cited (Galatians 2:11-8) that Paul confronted Peter. If President Obama is truly saved then somebody needs to follow Paul’s example here and confront him.

As for you and me meeting one day, I would like that as well. I do not think you want to debate with me publically though. Dr. McKissic, I am a nobody. I am a hick from the backwoods. As far as prominence is concerned, you and I are not on the same field. Not even close. But, thanks for the kind words though.

And on the subjects of meetings, I rarely see or speak to Jimmy Davis, and I do not know if he has been reading these comments or not. I have seen him on three occasions (Revival prayer meeting, Revival Prep Service, and Revival) in the past 12 years, and have not talked to him much more than that. So, I am in no position to ask him to meet with you. You will have to do that yourself. On that same token, do not let anything that I have said here reflect badly on him in your eyes. These are my beliefs. Jimmy Davis was truly a man of God back when I knew him at Muenster, he was truly a man of God when he came and preached our revival, and he still is truly a man of God.

I apologize for hurting you. I did not mean to do that. When you posed your question to me this past Friday, I knew where it was going to go. That is why I waited until today to respond. I thought very seriously about not responding. I prayed about it over the weekend, and finally was led to respond. I kind of figured that our discussion would end today. I actually cannot believe that it has gone on as long as it has. At any rate, I did not want to hurt your feelings, and I am truly sorry for that. I just felt like (and still feel like) that what you did to Jimmy Davis was wrong. And I would be wrong for not standing up for him and his family. I do not know if you were being sincere when you called this dialogue meaningful, but I will say that it has been meaningful to me.

And Dr. McKissic, I love you as well.

Finally, I apologize to all of Davis’ supporters who may have been reading this and possibly were offended by my comments on slavery. I know that these views do not go over well in our culture, but consider the facts before judging me too harshly.

It has been great. We will meet in Heaven one day.

Until then, this is Kenneth Reiter saying farewell and signing out…

Reply
Lee Says:

May 19, 2010 at 9:25 pm
Politics aside, I think the judgement of President Obama’s salvation should be left up to him and God. He says he’s a Christian, and I take him at his word. One’s position on social policy isn’t a determining factor in being able to discern whether or not the person is saved.

Wasn’t it the Pharisees who missed their guess about Jesus, thinking he couldn’t be from God because he healed on the Sabbath, and they jumped to the conclusion that meant he was in rebellion against God?

As usual, well said.

Reply
1. Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr. Says:
  
  May 20, 2010 at 10:04 am
  Lee, great insight and application of the Jesus healing on the Sabbath passage. Thanks for visiting. May your tribe increase.
  
  Reply
2. Zeek Says:
  
  May 21, 2010 at 1:58 pm
  The reason the Pharisees were wrong is because they lied about God’s Word. The Pharisees added a lot of thier own rules and if you did not follow them, you were guilty, ex. the Sabbath. They basically elevated thier word to the same level as God’s Word. That is why they missed God. You need to understand your context a little better.
  
  And I have not seen anybody here who has been adding to God’s Word. McKissic is not even using it. You know that actually might make McKissic a Pharisee. He seems to be elevating his word to the Word of God.
  
  Reply
  1. Lee Says:
    
    May 21, 2010 at 2:41 pm
    The Pharisees made a judgement based on their understanding of the law regarding the sabbath, that Jesus had to be in rebellion against God because he was, as they saw it, clearly violating it.
    
    Likewise, you cannot make a determination of the condition of someone’s soul related to redemption based on their political position on a couple of social issues.
    
    Here’s a scripture for you to take literally. Matthew 7:1-5. Jesus words, without commentary.
  2. Zeek Says:
    
    May 21, 2010 at 3:30 pm
    I looked at that passage, and I have seen something that you may have missed. You left out verse 6. 6 actually goes right along with 1-5.
    
    So you did provide commentary. You took that passage out of context.
    
    Nice try though.
    
    Now, watch this:
    
    So, here are some scriptures for you, without commentary:
    
    A commandment:
    
    Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. Leviticus 18:22
    
    The teaching of the Messiah:
    
    If you love me, you will obey what I command. John 14:15
    
    Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, HE WILL OBEY MY TEACHING. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. HE WHO DOES NOT LOVE ME WILL NOT OBEY MY TEACHING. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. John 14:24-25.
    
    Notice, the last part that those are the words of the Messiah’s Father.
    
    I am a fairly new Believer, so I am ignorant on the New Testament. In all of verses that Kenneth referenced, two have stuck out to me.
  3. Zeek Says:
    
    May 21, 2010 at 3:36 pm
    Oh, and I forgot.
    
    I may be ignorant when it comes to the New Testament, but I certainly know the Old Testament. And I take issue with you statment “you cannot make a determination of the condition of someone’s soul related to redemption based on their political position on a couple of social issues”.
    
    This is not true because position on social issues were certainly enough to determine the kings as wicked in the Old Testament.
  4. Lee Says:
    
    May 21, 2010 at 7:35 pm
    Ah, yes, Zeek, V. 6. But as you say, V. 6 goes with 1-5. If that’s the case, then your interpretation of casting pearls before swine doesn’t make your point, since it must stand alone in order to do so.
    
    If you know a lot about the Old Testament, then you know that the Kings of Israel and Judah were bound by a covenant relationship to God and were part of the theocracy. You cannot equate theocratic covenant Israel with the modern Democratic Republic of the United States. We aren’t God’s chosen people, and he hasn’t invited us as a nation into a covenant relationship.
Darla Says:

May 19, 2010 at 9:57 pm
I cannot believe someone could even imagine to compare Jesus’ healing power to Obama’s support of homosexuality & abortion. Really? Are you serious? Well, in this day and time ….yeah, I could imagine and would almost expect it. Sad, Sad, Sad….

Reply
1. Lee Says:
  
  May 21, 2010 at 2:34 pm
  It is not a comparison of Jesus’ healing power to Obama’s “support” of homosexuality and abortion. The pharisees certainly thought that healing on the sabbath was as wrong as any other sin (guilty of violating one point of the law, guilty of violating it all) and misjudged Jesus as a result of it. Your statement about Obama is, in and of itself, inaccurate and misleading. Being in favor of rights for persons of homosexual orientation isn’t “supporting homosexuality.” Nor is believing that abortion is a personal choice and not a legislative or government one “supporting” abortion. And you can’t biblically support your contention that someone who believes the way the President does on two socio-political issues can’t be a Christian. There is no Biblical requirement for a person to have a list of acceptable political positions in order to be redeemed. Nor is holding the position that some influential, prominent, self-appointed Christian leaders have declared to be the “correct” one a sign that someone is either saved, or not.
  
  I cannot believe that some Christians have decided they have the same immaculate perception that the Holy Spirit does, and they can tell, just like He can, who is and who isn’t saved.
  
  Reply
Darla Says:

May 19, 2010 at 10:58 pm
Mr. mcKicssick,

In response to your last note, I agree with much of what you said, however, I believe you are taking “some”, of a “people” and labeling them “all”, slavemasters & slaves…and you don’t seem too open-minded about the matter, so I will leave that issue alone & agree that descendants of the two don’t see it the same way. Although I would never know if I’m a descendant of a slave master,did you assume that? Are you a descendant of a slave? I’ve never gone back that far in the family tree. But some blacks may point at me and say “your great-great grandpa did…..” Why would they assume that? Who taught them to be angry with me? Is that fair to me? Notice I said “some” … not all. What some do, all should not be held accountable for.

Have you ever known people that don’t want to go to church because they have an idea of what “church-going people” are like, but there opinion is based on a few churches they had gone to in the past or a few Christians or preachers they knew. They have an idea of what “all” are based on what “some” have done…Are they right to think this way?

I bet if I looked into my ancestry, I would probably find some relatives who had great injustices done to them. Should I , therefore, be angry today & spread my anger around to others for injustices done so many years ago…by people who have been dead for centuries? I’ve had a great injustice done to me that I would not really like to discuss on here, but I’ve been taught to forgive. And that keeps me from being angry with that person, even to the point I’ve prayed for his salvation..oh..and he goes to church & says he’s a Christian, but he is a wicked, wicked man who should be in prison, but God is taking care of him now, unfortunately for him there has been no admission of guilt or repentance “Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord”

And now I ask, how did all this about Jimmy Davis preaching what you thought to be racist turn into a conversation on slavery. Who brought that up? And how is it really, really relevant in this day & time? Again, I say blacks have all the same opportunities as whites in America…even to hold the office of the Pres. of the USA. Let it go, man! yeah, it was bad, but It’s over.

These are my personal beliefs. I think Mr. Reiter has a better argument because his is based solely on God’s Word, which is undisputable. And for my last word…You really owe Jimmy Davis an apology. If you could only see what you’ve done… Have you even prayed and asked God about it? I’m done…said all I have to say.
Good day Mr. McKissick

Reply
1. Zeek Says:
  
  May 21, 2010 at 2:02 pm
  In response to your last note, I agree with much of what you said, however, I believe you are taking “some”, of a “people” and labeling them “all”
  
  This is right on. This is exactly what he is doing. Not all Southern slave masters were wicked. I hope people actually go and read the comments. If they do they will see just how foolish he is being.
  
  Reply
Russell Says:

May 20, 2010 at 1:16 pm
Hi Darla,

you make a very interesting point, i am no scholor or history expert but i have been reading the post for a couple weeks and the question has been on my mind of how this transpired to slavery. First I would like to say that I am white and my best friend outside of my family (and Jesus of course because Jesus is my best friend) is a black man he is my brother and I love him and he loves me and the same is with my family. the one thing I dont understand is that slavery has been around since the beginning of time and brutal slavery has always been a part of that. I am sure that if we could trace our lines back we probably will find that each of our families black or white have owned slaves and have been slaves at some point in time. Slavery and bondage is all through out the Bible just ask the Jews, I think David even had slaves and he was the apple of Gods eye.

My preacher taught a message a while back about motives and only God knows a mans true motive, man can say lots of things from his mouth but God knows his motives and I am not totaly sure but it looks as though that Mr McKissick may have a hidden agenda that he is using Mr Davis as his route to fulfill, but only God knows!!!!

I try to love everyone and give the benefit of the doubt because I feel that if a person ,pastor or not says or does something that i dont agree with or offends me that it is between them and God not me and I think that it is terrible that we live in a society that allows someone to discredit and dishonor another in public just because they dont agree with what they said instead of letting God handle it (because he will)I do not believe that praying for or asking to pray for our presidents salvation in public is wrong. Mr. Obama is on my churches prayer list and someone in the cogragation always remembers to mention him and others in power of our country for their salvation and guidence as they lead our country forward, I reckon if someone was to find out we may end up on channel 11 news next.

Theres one thing for sure JESUS IS COMING and when he does we will know all.

God Bless you all

Reply
Christiane Says:

May 20, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Some thoughts on the EVIL of imprecatory prayer by Christian people:

While a person LIVES, they can have a chance to be converted.
For that reason only, to ask God to remove them from this life NOW, is to ask Him not to honor life ‘from conception to natural death’.

This same argument is used by those who see the wisdom of ending the death penalty: in the time remaining to a person who has done great wrong, there is the Christian hope that this person may turn towards God.
Ending his life in a death chamber eliminates that hope. And we Christians are all about faith and hope and charity. Vengeance is not ours.

Reply
1. Zeek Says:
  
  May 21, 2010 at 1:45 pm
  Christians are also about revealing sin, and teaching people what is wicked. And it has already been shown that Obama knows the Gospel. So, he has had plenty of opportunities and he is without excuse as Romans 1 teaches. I heard on the radio recently, and I am not sure where, but somewhere in the Bible it says something like today is the time for salvation. You would certainly be correct if Obama didn’t know about Christ, but he has had plenty of chance so if he dies today or 50 years from now, no different it is his fault. Perhaps he is going to be used as a vessel of wrath? We will see.
  
  Reply
Zeek Says:

May 21, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Russell, you are dead on.

Dwight McKissic is obviously one bitter man. You know, I went and looked up the name Reiter, and it is German. I guess I should be angry and bitter at Kenneth because he is a German and we all know what his ancestors did to my ancestors… They did far worse things to the Jews than any Southerner did to the Africans.

And Kenneth should be mad at the Czechs because of all his German ancestors that Czechoslovakia massacred, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I know Kenneth Reiter because I live near the church that he is pastoring and I use his church’s internet to search for jobs, so I see him regularly. And if I was not a Messianic Jew i would probably be attending his church. He is a good man. He is one of the few Christians that I know who actually have actions to back their mouth. I do not know for sure where he is from, but he mentioned Munster, and I know there are lots of Reiters in Munster. If this is his people, then they didn’t even get to the United States until around 1900. He isn’t the descendant of any slave master. What does McKissic know. It seems if anyone here is truly objective, it would be Kenneth.

Racism is something that has always existed and always will exist. And I have seen that all races, including African Americans, are guilty of it. You can either cry like a baby about it, or let it go. And for people like Dwight McKissic, it is time to start living like its 2010 instead of 1850. You need to get a life man and quit spreading the hate.

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Lee Says:

May 21, 2010 at 7:50 pm
One of the things I have learned from several of the close friendships I have with African Americans is that I could live for a hundred more years, and I would still not be able to wrap my mind around the misery endured by these people, Americans on the soil of the world’s most powerful, free, prosperous country, during most of their history here, both pre and post Civil War. I hope they think things are getting better, but there is still a high level of bigotry and prejudice out there, and it has most definitely come to the surface with the election of Barack Obama to the Presidency.

I’m 52 years old. I have a close friend who is African American and about my age, old enough to remember being awakened in the early morning hours at his home in Mississippi by men in white hoods who dragged his father out into the yard, beat him senseless, and then strung him up in a tree with a rope and then set the house on fire. My friend, 8 years old, cut the rope and saved his father’s life, but the fire department wouldn’t come to put out the flames. Three neighbors had the same experience that night. I can’t even imagine what kind of terror or trauma that would cause. And the fact is that most African Americans in this country have either experienced that sort of terror, or are just one family member removed from it. Sorry, but a caucasian doesn’t have the standing to tell an African American to “just let it go.” Racism is a sin, and to say that it is just something that has always existed and always will exist is to exhibit a complete lack of understanding of what it is, and to admit that one is not willing to repent of it in their own life.

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Lee Says:

May 21, 2010 at 7:54 pm
Dwight, I think it is time for you to put on another one of those great Bible conferences like the Holy Spirit conference you did a few years ago, and let this one be on Racism in Baptist life. It’s time.

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Russell Says:

May 25, 2010 at 9:49 am
Hey Zeek,

Good stuff dude, racism has always been around and always will be, and not for just one paticular race of people. Lets look at affermitive action 100% legal racism, why should I get or loose a job because of my race, happens everyday and its legal.

I think some people dont understand you could have 1000 preachers give conferences across America on racism and it probably would help some but it will not eliminate the problem. When you here about racism today for the most part there is usualy someone behind it trying to enhance their hidden agenda. I really feel for Lees freind who had to experience that type of torture, but I wonder how the Jews and the polish felt, because the Germans didnt stop with hanging dad they went for mom and the children also and those that wasnt totured and shot were gased and burned wonder how those that survived felt about their loved ones, you can say it was war and you are right but it was still racism and crimes againt humanity. I have a question that maybe someone can answer how many African Americans lost their lives during their many years of bondage? the Jews lost around 6 million.

This whole thing started I believe because someone felt that their was not enough African American representation on the SBC does anyone know how many German Christians are on the board how about Jewish Christians or Italian Christians or any other race of Christians by these standards everyone of them could be fighting for representation on channel 11 news.

I have one other thing, throughout this whole ordeal the only one I can recall actually trying to fulfill Gods commands by praying for a mans salvation was Jimmy Davis and that one soul just like the lost sheep is probably Ladies and Gentlemen all Jesus is interested in.

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incredible large rack Says:

December 1, 2011 at 9:43 pm
incredible large rack…

[…]IS ANGLO CRITICISM OF PRESIDENT OBAMA’S POLICIES RACIST? « Wm. Dwight McKissic, Sr.[…]…

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Eric Says:

February 13, 2012 at 11:45 am
Dwight,

Some Anglo criticism of Obama is racially motivated and some is not. (And some of it is motivated by other bigotries: religious, political, and cultural.) Whoever produced the attached video of Obama’s so-called “Muslim” faith was not committed to honesty. The “mosque” they showed him entering is the quite famous Hagia Sophia, built as the largest cathedral in Christendom, converted into a mosque when Istanbul fell to the Ottoman Turks in the 1400’s, and since 1943 used as a museum. Had it been an active mosque, President Obama would have had to remove his shoes. (Pope Benedict XVI visited the Blue Mosque in Istanbul, removed his shoes and meditated; I myself have visited an active masjid with students to familiarize them with Islam: of course, no one asked or required them to worship. At any rate, I guess the pontiff and I are no longer Christian.)

Regarding Obama’s being considered a Christian or not, it depends upon what one means by the term “Christian.” He was a long-time member of a Christian denomination (United Church of Christ) and self-labels as a Christian. Yes, he displays an appropriate respect for the positive cultural accomplishments of Islam…and for his own personal heritage. This in no wise makes him Muslim.

However, if one defines Christianity as holding to theological orthodoxy and displaying personal devotion to the faith, there is very little evidence to include our president. His church membership in Chicago was, at least in part, politically motivated. He has not joined a church in D.C. If he is a Christian, he is a very liberal Christian. Liberal Christianity has long been considered by Evangelicals to be a completely different religion. In terms of soteriology and christology and hermeneutics (including the concept of biblical authority), there are basically no points of contact. From a purely academic standpoint, I would have to say Evangelicalism is closer to Orthodox Judaism than it is to Liberal Christianity.

Since you’re a Southern Baptist (did I get that right?), let me quote you Al Mohler. president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky:

“On November 3, 1921, J. Gresham Machen presented an address entitled, ‘Liberalism or Christianity?’ In that famous address, later expanded into the book, Christianity & Liberalism, Machen argued that evangelical Christianity and its liberal rival were, in effect, two very different religions.

Machen’s argument became one of the issues of controversy in the Fundamentalist/Modernist controversies of the 1920s and beyond. By any measure, Machen was absolutely right–the movement that styled itself as liberal Christianity was eviscerating the central doctrines of the Christian faith while continuing to claim Christianity as “a way of life” and a system of meaning.”

Gary Scott Smith, professor of History at Grove City College in Pennsylvania, recently wrote a book entitled “Faith and the Presidency.” In terms of those he evaluated as theologically orthodox and personally devout, he lists William McKinley, Woodrow Wilson, Jimmy Carter, and George W. Bush. I’m not absolutely sure ANY of even these few would qualify as definitively Evangelical. George W. would probably come the closest. Jimmy Carter has drifted leftward (and has left the Southern Baptist Convention).

Evangelicals tend to say that one “becomes a Christian” when one is born again spiritually. It doesn’t matter that you were a member of a mainstream denomination (or a nominal member of an Evangelical church) before that. One “becomes a Christian” when one meets and chooses to follow the Christ of Sacred Scripture (not the Christ of Secular Religion).

Yes, one can be a pro-choice, born-again Christian. But that would distinctly show one to be muddled in terms of his or her faith. To be pro-life on the issue of abortion is an Evangelical shibboleth. One could make a case, I suppose, that Jimmy Carter is such a confused Christian. When it comes to Barak Obama, however, I think it would be really tough to put forward such an argument. He is a very intelligent, articulate, respectful, and caring man, but he shows no evidence whatever of being a theologically conservative, Bible-believing Christian (and I think even he himself would disavow such a notion). His idea of Evangelicals appears to have been revealed in his concept, uttered during the primary campaign in 2008 (which he admitted was phrased clumsily), that they are bitter people, clinging to guns or religion or antipathy…. I would never presume to judge another man’s standing before God. At the same time, I have absolutely no reason to believe that President Obama is a brother in Christ. And therefore, I earnestly pray for his salvation.

All the best,

–Eric

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Zeek Says:

June 11, 2012 at 5:37 pm
God have mercy on us all. Heaven will have a lot to reveal. I hope that something good comes out of all this

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